Fia?

[gorilla]

Can we get an FIA spec caged TR-42? Has anyone tracked a Matrix yet.

[pook]

SURE, I've built cages that have been inspected and run in SCCA, NASA, and The POC. What did you have in mind?
PooK

[gorilla]

Great! Not completely sure yet. But I want to cover each of the sanctioning bodies just in case. Have you had clients track their projects yet? I currently have a 400whp legacy that will donate it's heart to a weekend/track car in the near future.

[pook]

Golftdibrad autoX's his, but no one road racing yet. That's what I built the car for however they are still new (being completed) and no one really has asked for a stripped down race version? Mostly its about cup holders and windshields:D but it'll happen!
PooK

[gorilla]

Well, maybe we'll be the first. You'll be getting a call in the near future. I don't want a completely stripped version. I'm looking for a nice medium. Good fit and finish yet inexpensive to run and maintain. Of course with mind blowing performance. What has the consensus been on the handling? Obviously it's going to be good, but is it Ariel great?

[pook]

Atom set the bar, no doubt about it! I don't have an Atom and can't speak for them.
I was careful to keep the mass low in the TR, I gave it an aggressive camber gain to be pushed hard in the corners yet keep the contact patch at max during braking and strait line. I gave it a full set of sways to fine tune it. I gave it full adjustable camber, caster, tow, even a semi adjustable ackerman.
PooK

[thebionicman]

Hopefully (fingers crossed) mine will be hitting a track this summer.

[gorilla]

Well, it definitely sounds like you got the important stuff. I have talked with my buddy who owns IAG Performance (IAGperformance.com) here in MD and we are thinking we are going to build two of them. One shop car for him and one track car for me to be sponsored by them.

We'll be contacting you soon.

[pook]

Then you may qualify for both the track car and multicar discounts....:thumb2:
PooK

[gorilla]

Sweet. Is this like Progressive? Can I set my own price too?

[pook]

Yep Flow's got nothing on me!
PooK

[pook]

Are you a member of NASIOC? Marty keeps a pretty complete build log there under Subaru conversions.
PooK

[gorilla]

I am actually! That's where we found out about the TR-42.

[gorilla]

Pook,

If we were do to a Mako with SCCA/NASA spec cage, could you give me an idea on how that would look?

I really don't want it to "look" like a full cage. A vehicle like this would lose a lot of it's aesthetic appeal with a caged in look.

Is it possible to be to spec without a halo?

[thebionicman]

Pook,

If we were do to a Mako with SCCA/NASA spec cage, could you give me an idea on how that would look?

I really don't want it to "look" like a full cage. A vehicle like this would lose a lot of it's aesthetic appeal with a caged in look.

Is it possible to be to spec without a halo?

What do you plan on running? Wheel to wheel, time trials, HPDE? As mine sits it would be legal for NASA in HDPE and Time Trials. I should be time trialing mine, but I may be running in chump car so who knows what will happen with the car.

[gorilla]

I'm not sure yet. I've already have my comp license, I just havnt used it. I just want to make sure the car we build will meet any regs for any series I might decide to do.

[pook]

I'm not sure that you can cover all classes? For example roofed cars vs roadsters or open cars have different requirements, mostly because they don't want the windshield frame to collapse in and trap you. The side impact or door bars are there because a door is really only .050 sheet metal. (Or a fiberglass skin).
Exo cars for the most part are a rolling cage and the only question would be does the tubing meet the current specs, .095x1.50 dom in the roll structure....YES! Is the radi of the bend at least 3x the width of the tube...YES! Is there a 3/16 inspection hole...SURE! Main hoop 2" over your helmet....YES! Will the welds pass....YES!
That brings us to front hoop and halo, I don't think open cars require it BUT if track is your primary goal I recommend we do like the locosters do and build it anyway! If its for the track then looks are secondary. If its for both and you need more there are solutions.
I can't speak for this years rules but bolt in roll bars were allowed as long as they were built to spec (they have the spec or did in the rule book).
Open cars are different, in fact it use to be you only needed a hoop over the drivers head or what they called 50%, like a cobra car.
I guess we should post up on the SCCA's site and see what they recommend, I know there are changes this year...as there are every year.
PooK

[pook]

In fact if it were me, I would just do a full hoop and halo, because I would want things like a window net, etc.....racing is just more fun if you feel safe! My .02......
PooK

[pook]

And I don't think a full cage would be large enough to really take away from the looks...It would be so small anyway...LOL!
PooK

[cordycord]

Most sanctioning bodies want a "six point" roll cage, right? It can be an all-enclosing cage, or something that looks more like a top fuel dragster cage--a single person cage.

The Factory Five race cages look like they have a rear hoop, a second set of supporting tubes that wrap forward, and then (I'm guessing) a roll hoop at the steering wheel. I'm sure they've got side impact bars as well.

[gorilla]

We need to see what this might look like on the Mako. I'm ok with the cage idea, as I wouldn't drive it on the street without a helmet anyway. I'm just worried it will look terrible. The locost and caterham's look like dookie with a full cage.

[pook]

C. FRONT HOOP
1. Roll cages may be of two designs, low front hoop or high front
hoop. All closed top cars and cars that retain the windshield
frame must have a high front hoop design. Open cars may
incorporate a high or low front hoop design. High front hoop
are also referred to as side hoops.
a. Closed cars
GCR - 109
9. Cars and Equipment
General
The front hoop (side hoop) must follow the line of the
A-pillars to the top of the windshield and be connected by
horizontal bars to the top of the main hoop on each side
(as close to the roof as possible). Instead of a single front
hoop, two side hoops (down tubes) may be used. Alternatively,
a top “halo” hoop following the roof line from
the main hoop to the windshield with forward down tubes
following the A-pillars to the floor may be used. Regardless
of which one of the two approved tubing configurations
there shall be a tube connecting the two A-pillar
tubes at the top of the windshield.

Looks like there are choices to be had, Ill be glad to draw something up but we need to narrow the design down to high or low front, and halo or side hoops with cross if Im reading it right, This is through feb 2012 SCCA rules.
PooK

[gorilla]

Wow. Vague it seems. I'll have to think about that. Having raced and crashed open wheel cars in the past, I know to trust the main hoop. I'm wondering if a low front hoop design can look good and not require cage padding everywhere. I have a similar fear for a traditional cage. Tough decisions.

[pook]

It's a tough call for a open car, esp one that will also be streetable. no matter what if you are looking for a full cage to cover every type racing or class its going to be visually out of place a bit, but no more so than any other roadster.
The only good news is that since we have no window post or roof line to follow we have a little latitude and a tube chassis car can land the points on other tubes as long as the load is spread through the chassis.
But like thebionicman said it depends on where and what you want to run. It's legal as is in some classes, track events, etc...
I will try to sketch something out........that doesn't look like dookie"pain"
PooK

[gorilla]

Thanks. I know I'm being a pain. And I probably need to sit down with my buddy at IAG and see what classe he'll want me racing in. I know Time Trials/Time Attack will likely be the first step in actual racing. But who knows where we might go from there.

[pook]

My friend there is nothing we can't do! I simply need a direction and off we go! I'll make it happen!
It's just metal looking for a form.:coolnana:
PooK

[Karlo]

My friend there is nothing we can't do! I simply need a direction and off we go! I'll make it happen!
It's just metal looking for a form.:coolnana:
PooK

Direction and ------- Money?

[gorilla]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fmcgraw/6291719399/in/photostream/

Think this will do the trick?

[pook]

Yes, and simple to do.
If you don't mind me asking how tall are you? I worry about the brace tube a) ringing your bell if you drive it on the street without a helmet. And b) obstructing your vision pulling into traffic.
If this were a race car only that's really not as much of a concern.
PooK

[gorilla]

I'm 6'1". If you're going to draw some ideas, can you show the high front hoop option with a windscreen please....thanks!!!

[gorilla]

http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/attachments/f178/153356d1284563581-mk-sportscars-advice-front-20page-20indy.jpg

This cage looks like it would be good dual purpose cage.

[gorilla]

What is the suggested wheel size for this application?

[pook]

They have ranged from 225 to 275 17's
PooK

[gorilla]

Thoughts on 18's? I'm looking around and some of better track wheels have better widths and offsets in 18's. Also what width wheels and offsets have you seen so far?

[gorilla]

Nevermind. I took a few more looks at the prototype. That would look ridiculous. Although 18's in the rear and 17's up front might look OK.

[pook]

We put 16, 17 and 18's against the profile and the 17's are the trick.

[gorilla]

My legacy part out has begun!!!!

[pook]

:clap:
PooK

[gorilla]

I know your super busy...but you got any drawings going for the cage/roll bar options?