Engine choices

[mrgsdsjg]

Hey all, I'm still 'window shopping' looking at the razor and have been thinking about which engine choice I would go with. Here's what I've narrowed it down to, I would like to get your opinions!

4G63T, 6 bolt = Cheap and powerful
Pros: I have some experience with the 4G63 and I know they are not the most reliable engines, but its hard to beat the price for someone elses 'project' motor that was never finished or installed. It's very easy to get to my goal of 250-300 WHP and well beyond if I felt like it.
Cons: As I understand it these motors are a little heavy and I know they are not extremely reliable.

VW 2.0T w/DSG
Pros: DSG transmission would make driving the car much easier on a track. Could use a button or paddle shifter on the steering wheel. As I'm sure we all know the DSG also shifts gears extremely fast. I would think the 2.0T w/DSG will probably weigh in about the same as the 4G63 due to the added weight of the DSG.
Cons: I don't have any experience with these motors and don't have a good idea of how reliable they are (when modded to get the power level I want). I also don't have a good idea on pricing for the motor itself or for any mods?

VW 3.2VR6 w/DSG
Pros: Smooth power delivery across the rpms, AWESOME sound, reduced complexity (no turbo). I'm kinda leaning towards this motor because of how the VR6 drives and sounds (no turbo lag or sudden 'boost' in power when the turbo kicks in). Also has the benefits in regards to fast gear shifts.
Cons: Since the motor still only has two cam shafts I expect this motor would weigh about 60-100 lbs more than the 2.0T, which isn't bad for the extra two cylinders. I'm not sure how much the additional weight would affect the performance and handling of the razor? This motor also is more expensive to mod (HP/$) than the other choices.

VW 3.2VR6 w/manual
Pros: All of the same pros as the 3.2 w/dsg except for the fast shifting. This would also weigh less than the 3.2 w/dsg which may get the weight back down to the 2.0T w/DSG or 4G63 motors.
Cons: Expensive to mod in regards to HP/$


So what do you guys think? How much would the additional weight of a VR6 motor affect the performance of the Razor? Would the DSG transmission and smooth power delivery make up for the additional weight? Any of you with opinions have any track experience?
THANKS!
-Tyler

[ViperJustin]

I know VW makes their 6's really narrow, but will it fit? Fran has built a VW 2.0 with DSG. I'd recommend calling him and asking his thoughts.

[cordycord]

I followed the high-tech, high horsepower route by putting in a Mazda 2.3 DISI motor--turbo, intercooled, direct injection, variable valve in my car. But I forgot about all of the high-tech wiring, sensors, ABS, seat belt sensors, air bag sensors, immobilizers, key sensors, CAN bus layouts, etceteras, involved. Go simple. Go proven. Go with the 4G63T and enjoy the hell out of your car.

[ViperJustin]

I followed the high-tech, high horsepower route by putting in a Mazda 2.3 DISI motor--turbo, intercooled, direct injection, variable valve in my car. But I forgot about all of the high-tech wiring, sensors, ABS, seat belt sensors, air bag sensors, immobilizers, key sensors, CAN bus layouts, etceteras, involved. Go simple. Go proven. Go with the 4G63T and enjoy the hell out of your car.

+1. And since you're familiar with them, why wouldn't you? I'm dealing with the electrical nightmare of the LNF. And there's a huge aftermarket for the Mitsubishi.

[Karlo]

I followed the high-tech, high horsepower route by putting in a Mazda 2.3 DISI motor--turbo, intercooled, direct injection, variable valve in my car. But I forgot about all of the high-tech wiring, sensors, ABS, seat belt sensors, air bag sensors, immobilizers, key sensors, CAN bus layouts, etceteras, involved. Go simple. Go proven. Go with the 4G63T and enjoy the hell out of your car.

Im with Cord, go with what you know.

[mrgsdsjg]

I know VW makes their 6's really narrow, but will it fit? Fran has built a VW 2.0 with DSG. I'd recommend calling him and asking his thoughts.

On the FAQ portion of the superlitecars website RCR states that the VR6 will fit and they already have mounts built and in stock for "all VW in transverse format". I believe VW uses the same or very similar mounts for all of their engines which probably made it a bit easier for RCR to support all VW motors. I will probably call to find out if anyone else has actually used the VR6 in their build though.

I guess I will probably end up using the 4G63, it would be significantly cheaper as well. I will definately do a little more research on my options though. I was told that a tuner should be able to disable specific functions/sensors on the VW ECU (such as ABS, seat belts, air bags, etc), but I have no direct knowledge as to whether it is that easy or not. The 2008 VW R32 has AWD which could easily be converted to FWD (so I'm told). It would be awesome to be able to retain the launch control function of the R32 in a SLRazor, just sayin. :D

[STi 5]

I'm gonna go a different route than everybody else and say the K20, even though it's not on your list. Definately more expensive than the 4G63, but I think it has great power potential combined with simplicity on it's side. There are quite a few guys running around with stock bottom end turbo k20's pushing 500 whp. The best part is if you want to do FI or NA, the k20 shines doing either. However, if you are more comfortable and have more experience with a certain manufacturer, (ie VW, Honda, etc) I honestly believe you should go with that engine whose manufacturer you have prior knowledge and or experience. Because that expereince you have will pay dividends when trying to Frankenstein everything together on the SLR. Just my two pennies.

[ViperJustin]

BADoug has a K20 on his SLR. The only mods to it are intake and exhaust. He's producing around 240hp. On the track, he keeps up with even the fastest cars out there. His car probably weighs around 1400 lbs vs mine at 1500 lbs.

[mrgsdsjg]

I can definitely see the benefits to using a NA K20. If the car weighs that much less it will not only accelerate faster but corner and brake better too. Something else to think about...

[mrgsdsjg]

I've been looking at wheels I would get for a Razor (assuming I buy one sometime soon) and would like to hear your thoughts?
I've been looking at light weight wheels such as the Volk Racing TE37 and TE37SL. They are really light and make them pretty wide (up to 18x10.5). Would these wheels do well on a track or public roads though? I'm worried about bending a rim, but then again the SLRazor is so light perhaps it wouldn't be so bad? What heighth side wall would you all suggest for a tire?
(BTW, I have 19x8.5 and 19x10.5 Axis rims with 245/35ZR19 & 285/35ZR19 on my 350Z. Almost four years of daily driving with no problems.)

[ViperJustin]

I've been looking at wheels I would get for a Razor (assuming I buy one sometime soon) and would like to hear your thoughts?
I've been looking at light weight wheels such as the Volk Racing TE37 and TE37SL. They are really light and make them pretty wide (up to 18x10.5). Would these wheels do well on a track or public roads though? I'm worried about bending a rim, but then again the SLRazor is so light perhaps it wouldn't be so bad? What heighth side wall would you all suggest for a tire?
(BTW, I have 19x8.5 and 19x10.5 Axis rims with 245/35ZR19 & 285/35ZR19 on my 350Z. Almost four years of daily driving with no problems.)

Definitely ask Fran about what back spacing to use. Also make sure that the wheels have the Corvette lug pattern.

For the rear tire, I wouldn't go much over a 30 if you're going to go that wide. For the front, 35.

My 225 front has a 45 sidewall. It still looks really good and doesn't have too much sidewall bend. My rear 245 is a 40 and it's the same as the front.

I wouldn't worry about bending a rim. I've put my C6 replica wheels through multiple autocrosses (including a spinout) and lots of "drifting" recently. They are rolling as straight as the day they were put on.

[Garage Dweller]

In about a year I will let you know how a highly modified 4g63t works out. :wave:
Would have been sooner but my wife bought me Call of Duty on x box for Christmas. Talk about a time eater. WOW:coolnana: I had to let my online subscription run out. I was getting nothing done.

[mrgsdsjg]

LOL, yeah I cancelled my xbox subscription too. I get sucked into video games real quick!

How is your build coming along Garage Dweller? Do you have any sketches of what your exo is going to look like?

[mrgsdsjg]

Just another thought to add, most 4G63t's don't have a limited slip differential in the transmission (FWD), so thats gonna cost a little extra.. Just something else to add to the comparison.

Turns out the 6 bolt 4g63t with AWD transmission has a limited slip center differential.

[mobius]

4g63 seems to be the wayto go and the evo platform is the better of the bunch from what i have found. $5-6k for the drivetrain roughly so double or so from a dsm 1g or 2g...

[Nirvana Motorsport]

Built 1g can be done for similar money, that's what the big guys usually do.