SRT-4 Dodge Turbo

[Karlo]

I have been doing some other engine research and the SRT-4 2004-05 seems to be bargain at 2-4k for a clean setup at 230hp +.

Stock dyno sheet below.


http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z302/landfalcon/ml68con4-1.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z302/landfalcon/ml68con1.jpg

[#Rotor]

hmmmm... and an engine that will display very nice in the back of an open frame as well.... God knows, there are some engines that just looks like crap, no matter what you do with them.

[Karlo]

It features a 2.4-liter DOHC 16V Turbocharged I4 with dual variable valve timing (DVVT). It produces 285 horsepower (213 kW) at 6,400 rpm, and 265 lb·ft (359 N·m) of torque at 5,600 rpm using the Mitsubishi TD04HL4S-20 turbo. The engine is mated to a GETRAG six-speed manual transmission.

1st: 3.23
2nd: 1.952
3rd: 1.321
4th: 0.971
5th: 1.061
6th: 0.886

final drive ratios: 4.063 (1st through 4th) and 2.955 (5th and 6th)

[ICBomber90]

Here's a Neon SRT-4 for sale through an Insurance aution site:

http://www.ridesafely.com/Spider/Image.aspx?Image=135.2@150.8@150.8@145.6@75.4@61.1 @61.1@136.5@141.7@126.1@133.9@131.3@149.5@59.8@128 .7@144.3@145.6@126.1@148.2@150.8@59.8@128.7@144.3@ 141.7@61.1@154.7@131.3@127.4@149.5@136.5@150.8@131 .3@61.1@130@126.1@150.8@126.1@61.1@145.6@136.5@156 @61.1@65@62.4@62.4@72.8@62.4@65@63.7@65@61.1@62.4@ 71.5@62.4@65@67.6@72.8@72.8@72.8@123.5@63.7@114.4@ 59.8@96.2@104@92.3@81.9@63.7@71.5@75.4@67.6@72.8@7 5.4@62.4@66.3@

http://www.ridesafely.com/inventory.asp?vt=&InventoryID=802107277&description=2004%20DODGE%20NEON%20SRT-4&Search=vt%3D%26make%3DDODGE%26model%3DNEON%26regio n%3D%26status%3D%26AuctionDate%3D%26description%3D SEARCH%2520FOR%2520DODGE%2520NEON

Make a great donor for a SL-R :coolnana:

Pat

[Karlo]

From my understanding the 2004 + is the year you want to buy too :D, great find.

[Degeneerit]

I have been doing some other engine research and the SRT-4 2004-05 seems to be bargain at 2-4k for a clean setup at 230hp +. The only problem a handy man will have to fab his own mounts. SL-R and others seem to favor the Honda K and Ecotec.


Fran said he would make mounts for a non k20/eco engine if somebody sent him the engine and money for a pre order:thumb2: Not sure if he is charging for this service? :hscratch: Either way you know its going to get done right if you send it to Fran. And you could drive it home!:yahoo:

[Conquest351]

2004 & 2005 had Quaife LSD's in them from the factory. Also, I thought they were 5 speed transmissions. Didn't know they were 6 speeds. Hhhhmm Did a little digging and this is what I found...

Here's some info I jacked from the SRT Forum (stolen from member Moltenice)

"Onto the fun.....

The cast-iron block looks extremely stout, with a closed deck on top and a very strong split crankcase. Rather than individual main bearing caps, or even caps joined by a main bearing girdle, the block simply extends past the crank and is split right down the crank centerline. The bottom half (called the bedplate) incorporates all the main bearing caps. In addition to improved strength, this design offers reduced noise and vibration, so it's becoming fairly common in modern engine design.
http://www.gcsrts.com/srts-admin/pictures/Crank.jpg

The crank is cast, but the use of higher-hardness steel and careful attention to detail makes it quite strong. The bearings are large, at 60mm for the mains and 50mm for the rod bearings, and naturally it's fully counterweighted. It's the details like the cold-rolled fillets at the edges of the bearings that really matter, though. The corner where each bearing meets the crank throw is an area of high stress concentration, so the corner is rounded (filleted) to spread out the stress and prevent cracking. By cold rolling this fillet instead of cutting it, the steel gets work hardened, just as it would in a forged crank, making this most critical area stronger. The SRT-4 drag teams are rumored to be making between 800 and 1200 hp on the stock crank (and stock block and bedplate), so we figure it's strong enough.
http://www.gcsrts.com/srts-admin/pictures/SRT-4%20Crank.jpg

The connecting rods are forged in one solid piece, machined, and then broken in half. That's right, the rod-bearing cap is created by simply snapping off the bottom half of the rod bearing. These "cracked" rods fit together perfectly, thanks to the jagged interface, ensuring a perfectly round rod bearing when the rod is assembled. This cracking technique is common on flimsy powdered-metal rods, but relatively rare on forged parts.
http://www.gcsrts.com/srts-admin/pictures/Cracked%20Rod%20shot.jpg

The rod bolts are the same 9mm in diameter as the naturally aspirated 2.4, but use a slightly different thread shape (called MJ9 if you insist on knowing everything) with a slightly more rounded chamfer at the bottom of the threads to reduce stress concentration. Since the base of the threads is the bolt's weakest point, this simple change strengthens the entire bolt.
http://www.gcsrts.com/srts-admin/pictures/SRT%20Rod%20shot.jpg

...continues below...

[Conquest351]

The extra heat of turbocharged combustion makes for some hot pistons. That heat is carried away in part by a spray of oil from an oil squirter at the bottom of each cylinder. The high volume of oil flowing from these squirters can rob valuable oil from the rest of the engine, so each sprayer has a small ball valve to shut off oil flow at idle and low rpm when the oil pump can't flow enough to supply everything.
http://www.gcsrts.com/srts-admin/pictures/SRT-4%20oil%20squirter.jpg

Of course, those low oil flow situations will be rare, since the SRT-4 oil pump uses a high-flow gerotor set (that's the set of goofy-looking gear thingies that actually pump the oil) stolen from Chrysler's 4.7-liter V8.
http://www.gcsrts.com/srts-admin/pictures/SRT%20oil%20pump.jpg

The balance shaft assembly hangs under the front three cylinders. While it could be removed in much the same way we removed the balance shafts on the QR25DE in our SE-R Spec-V rally car (being sure to plug the oil feed hole and add a windage tray), the SRT-4 engine has a longer stroke, more reciprocating mass from its beefier rods, and worse rod/stroke ratio, which causes more violent piston acceleration. Removing the balance shafts would probably free up 8 or 9 hp like it did on the Nissan engine, but engine vibration without the shafts would be far more severe than it was with the relatively lightweight QR25. Besides, with a turbo, the extra 9 hp would be more easily achieved with a hair more boost.
http://www.gcsrts.com/srts-admin/pictures/SRT%20balance%20shaft%20assembly.jpg

The structural cast-aluminum oil pan hides some interesting details. The gasket, for instance, has some extensions that stick between the counterweights to scrape oil from the crank (no, they don't actually touch it). With the balance shafts in front, these scrapers are only possible on the rear of the crank. Oil passages in the pan carry oil to the oil/water oil cooler and oil filter. The lack of baffling around the oil pickup does make us a bit nervous about high-g cornering, but remember, the balance shaft assembly sits right above the oil pickup, acting like a big, thick windage tray. This should help keep oil down in the pan.
http://www.gcsrts.com/srts-admin/pictures/SRT%20oil%20pan.jpg

...continues below...

[Conquest351]

The turbo pistons, cast by Mahle from a eutectic aluminum alloy, have a shorter pin height (the distance from the wrist pin to the top of the piston) than the naturally aspirated piston on the left, lowering compression to 8.1:1. The turbo pistons also use full floating wrist pins, where the naturally aspirated pins are pressed into the piston. Full floating pins cause less friction and better handle the higher cylinder pressures. The skirts are coated with Mahle's Grafal low-friction coating for, well, less friction. The top compression ring groove is hard anodized (that's the gray band) to prevent the hot top ring from microwelding itself to the piston.
As with all modern engines, the top ring land has been made as short as possible to reduce emissions caused by unburned fuel hiding in the crevice between the ring land and the cylinder wall.
The smaller ring lands (4mm in this case, compared to 8mm on the old 1990 2.5-liter Chrysler turbo) can't survive as much detonation, but modern engine management makes that detonation much less likely anyway.
http://www.gcsrts.com/srts-admin/pictures/SRT%20mahle%20pistons.jpg

The shorter piston never reaches the top of the bore; this is actually top dead center. The "ski ramp" piston dome encourages tumble in the cylinder, which improves idle stability and light-load performance. The best wide-open throttle performance, though, usually comes from a piston that comes as close as possible to the flat edges of the combustion chamber (called quench pads). The gas trapped between the piston and the quench pads gets squished out, flying directly into the flame kernel where combustion is starting. This added turbulence speeds flame propagation and reduces the chance of knock. Of course, a taller piston would raise compression, so the ski ramp would have to be replaced with a dish, but that's do-able.
If you add up the crank throw (half the stroke, or 50.5mm) the rod length (151mm), and the pin height (28mm) you'll find the top of the piston 229.5mm above the crank centerline. That's 8.64mm short of the top of the block (238.14mm). If it were us, we'd make the rod 159.64mm, which would improve the rod ratio from 1.5:1 to 1.58:1. Then we'd use a dished piston with flat areas to match the quench pads in the head. Of course, we don't care about idle stability and emissions, and we don't have the simulation software, math skills, or test engines to prove that this is a good idea, but it's a hunch. If we ever manage to blow up a stock one...
http://www.gcsrts.com/srts-admin/pictures/SRT%20ski%20ramp%20pistons.jpg

The combustion chamber is classic pent-roof, with the spark plug in the middle where it belongs. The flat area extending between the intake valves (the bigger ones), and the smaller area hiding behind the exhaust valves would be the quench pads, if the pistons were designed to use them. Engine geeks take note: The intake valves are 34.8mm, the exhaust valves 28.45. For comparison, that's smaller than the 35.65mm intake and 30.65mm exhaust valves in Nissan's QR25. The included angle of the valves is fairly steep, at 48 degrees. This steep valve angle was common in the high-output Japanese four-valve until 10 or 15 years ago, but the newer engines have flatter combustion chambers on the order of 25 degrees. There's good and bad with both designs. Lastly, get this: The exhaust valves are made of Inconel, a hyper-expensive high-nickel steel superalloy designed for the high-stress, high-temperature world of gas turbine blades.
http://www.gcsrts.com/srts-admin/pictures/SRT%20combustion%20chamber.jpg

The valvetrain uses rocker arms, which increase valvetrain mass compared to a cam-on-bucket design, but with the long stroke, valve float won't be the thing limiting redline. Rocker arms allow the cams (and their big cam gears) to sit closer together, making the cylinder head physically smaller, and, more importantly, they allow more aggressive opening and closing ramps on the cams. Valve lash is hydraulically adjusted, and the cam hits the rocker through a low-friction roller. All good stuff.
http://www.gcsrts.com/srts-admin/pictures/SRT%20valvetrain.jpg

...continues below...

[Conquest351]

Here's an important detail when you're trying to cool 223 hp. Water pumps are made up of several vanes arranged around a disc-shaped rotor, and the water between these vanes gets flung to the outside as the pump spins. Typical water pumps have exposed vanes, and the trapped water is surrounded by a vane on each side, the rotor, and a machined face in the block or front cover where the water pump is mounted. There is a small gap between the vanes and this machined face, though, so water can leak past into the next chamber. The old Chrysler 2.4-liter pump was a six-blade stamped steel piece of junk. Switching to a fully shrouded seven-blade plastic pump increased pump flow by 24 percent and output pressure by 48 percent. That's better.
http://www.gcsrts.com/srts-admin/pictures/SRT%20water%20pump.jpg

Things start getting strange here. Tight packaging in the PT Cruiser forced some creative thinking on the turbo. The exhaust manifold and turbine housing are cast in one piece by Mitsubishi from high-nickel Ni-Resist steel. The one-piece design improves flow, reduces size, reduces thermal mass for quicker cat light-off, and makes it a pain in the ass to upgrade the turbo.


A few more interesting things about the turbo: Packaging constraints dictated a reverse-rotation turbo that spins counter-clockwise, unlike most turbos (but like the EVO VIII's). The Mitsubishi TD04 compressor has a compressor bypass valve built right into the compressor housing. The silver can on top is the diaphragm that opens the valve to vent boost from the volute (the outside of the snail) back to the compressor inlet. Both the wastegate and bypass valve get their boost signals via ECU-controlled solenoids.All together, the turbo is a Mitsubishi TD04LR-16Gk with a 6cm2 turbine inlet. This will only mean something to you if you're familiar with Mitsubishi turbos, and even then maybe it won't. Mitsubishi wouldn't cough up the compressor maps for this turbo, but we did learn that peak compressor efficiency is a very healthy 77 percent
http://images.sportcompactcarweb.com/projectcars/0310scc_projneon18_z.jpg

OK, engine management geeks, that's a 32-tooth crank trigger wheel (34-2). The engine management is model based, which means it constantly calculates the appropriate fuel and timing outputs instead of just looking them up on a table. The throttle position is interpreted by the ECU as a demand for a certain amount of torque, and the ECU does whatever it can to deliver. If it's hot out, or you're at high altitude, the ECU will try to satisfy your demand by increasing the boost to match the power output under normal conditions (presumably a dreary day in Detroit). Helping with the math are a few unusual sensors feeding the ECU valuable information about underhood conditions. The Air Charge Temperature (ACT) sensor measures the temperature of the air exiting the intercooler, and the Throttle Inlet Pressure (TIP) sensor measures pressure before the throttle body. These are used to predict the turbo speed, so the ECU can avoid overspeeding the turbo. The expected Throttle Position (TPS) Sensor and Manifold Air Pressure (MAP) sensor are also there, but there's no Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor. Mass flow is calculated from the other values. The TIP sensor occasionally pokes its head out and measures ambient air pressure, too. Trick daddy. Both the MAP and TIP sensors have a 2.25-bar range, meaning they'll read from absolute vacuum to just more than 18 psi. Sensors with larger ranges will be included in Mopar's staged upgrades.
http://www.gcsrts.com/srts-admin/pictures/SRT%20crank%20trigger%20wheel.jpg

Engine block
Engine code: A855
Block construction: Cast iron, closed deck, split crankcase
Bore x stroke: 87.5mm x 101.0mm
Displacement: 2,429cc
Compression ratio: 8.1:1
Bore spacing: 96mm
Deck height: 238.14mm
Pistons: Cast by Mahle, eutectic aluminum alloy
Connecting rod design: Forged, cracked caps, threaded-in 9mm rod bolts
Connecting rod length: 151mm
Rod/stroke ratio: 1.50:1
Crank design: Cast high-hardness steel
Main bearing diameter: 60mm
Rod bearing diameter: 50mm

Cylinder Head
Head construction: Cast aluminum
Combustion chamber design: 48-degree pent-roof with partial cloverleaf between intake valves
Valvetrain: Hydraulically adjusted rocker arm with roller cam followers
Intake valve size: 34.80mm (Silchrome-1)
Exhaust valve size: 28.45mm (Inconel)
Intake valve angle: 24.46 degrees
Exhaust valve angle: 23.5 degrees

Paired with the SRT-4's turbo-charged power plant are a New Venture Gear (NVG) T-850 high-performance 5-speed manual transmission, beefy equal-length half shafts and a Sachs high-capacity performance clutch and pressure plate. The SRT group (formally known as PVO) knew that the car was going to be driven hard and fast so they made sure that the parts that counted were up to the task."

That's about all I could find. Power numbers were as follows...

2003:
Power: Rated at 215hp/245tq

2004-2005:
Power: Rated at 230hp/250tq


Laters,

Brian

PS Had to split up the posts due to the 4 picture per post limit. :thumbdown2:

[Pagester]

Brian - whats the verdict in the SRT-4 community regarding the Neon's SRT-4 engine versus the Caliber's SRT-4 engine?

just curious - thanks for posting this great info

[Conquest351]

This is what I found while searching...

Taken from Motor Trend,

"Fun is to be had thanks to the turbocharging and intercooling of the 2.4-liter DOHC global four, shared among Chrysler, Daimler, Mitsubishi, and Hyundai. Besides adding Mitsubishi's TD04 turbo, SRT has a polished intake manifold and a forged crankshaft, connecting-rod oil squirters for stouter reliability, and a stainless-steel exhaust. Like the standard engine, it has variable valve timing for intake and exhaust.

SRT also adds a dual-mass flywheel for better noise/vibration/harshness characteristics. The new Getrag six-speed gearbox has dual-cone synchros for first through fourth gears, and the throws are an inch shorter. That's compared with a base Caliber's five-speed, which feels good only in comparison with the Caliber's continuously variable transmission. The Getrag six-speed feels slick and precise, but the throws are long next to those of a Miata or Civic Si."

Also found...

Engine 2.4L/285-hp/265-lb-ft turbocharged DOHC 16-valve I-4
Transmission 6-speed manual
Curb Weight 3200 lb (mfr)
Wheelbase 103.7 in
Length x Width x Height 173.8 x 68.8 x 59.7 in
0-60 MPH 6.0 sec (mfr est)
EPA City/HWY Econ 21/26 mpg

I also read that the Caliber has an 11 row intercooler as opposed to the 8 row in the Neon.
Article can be read here...
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/hatchbacks/112_0711_2008_dodge_caliber_srt_4/index.html
If you'll notice the first part of the article, the engine torque is limited in 1st - 3rd gear to aid in traction. I'm not a big fan of that. LOL

So the verdict is...
Neon SRT4 vs. Caliber SRT4
Both cheap engines to find. But go with the Caliber engine if you can find it due to the forged crank and 6-speed tranny. That's all I got.


laters,

Brian

[Pagester]

Both cheap engines to find. But go with the Caliber engine if you can find it due to the forged crank and 6-speed tranny. That's all I got.


that's what I was thinking, just wasn't sure if the 'new-ness' of the caliber engine meant that it was meaningfully more expensive, harder to tune, etc...

thanks:coolnana:

[Conquest351]

Honestly, I'd go with either, but the 6-speed is a little more desirable to me. Dunno why, just like having 6 gears. LOL But on the other hand, having that Quaife LSD in the 5-speed may be worth the extra gear sacrafice...
As far as tuning, I know for a fact that AEM offers a stand alone ECU for the SRT4 Neon. That's what I'm going to go for and ditch all the crap I don't need.
Now with that being said, I need to make some sales so I can buy one!!!

Anyone looking for Land in Texas?

Laters,

Brian

[B_OBrien]

What is the weight of the whole SRT4 set up (engine/trans) versus the Honda K engnes?

[Conquest351]

What is the weight of the whole SRT4 set up (engine/trans) versus the Honda K engnes?

NO idea. I did some searching and even calling pullout companies and they didn't have the info handy for me. Then I got a little busy, so I haven't been able to search any more. You guys can though. LOL

OR...
Someone can buy a house or some land from me and I'll get one and weigh it. :D

[B_OBrien]

The 2008 Caliber SRT4 seems like a damn good choice:

It features a 2.4-liter DOHC 16V Turbocharged I4 with dual variable valve timing (DVVT). It produces 285 hp (213 kW) at 6,400 rpm, and 265 lb·ft (359 N·m) of torque at 5,600 rpm using the Mitsubishi TD04HL4S-20 turbo. The engine is mated to a Getrag six-speed manual transmission, and utilizes a front-wheel drive drivetrain.

Obviously not too many of these lying around! I wonder what the main difference is between this engine and the Neon SRT4. The DVVT?? What would it take to upgreade the Neon engine to Caliber specks??

Neon SRT4:

Power: 230 hp (170 kW) (2004-2005 models)

Torque: 250 lb·ft (339 N·m) @ 2400-4400 rpm (2004-2005 models)

For us guys who are looking at building their exo a few years down the road the Caliber Engine may be one to keep an eye out for!

[Conquest351]

Yeah or keep your eyes out for a wrecked one. Grab the whole drivetrain & wiring harness & ECU out of it.

[Conquest351]

Ok, just got a little info...

SRT4 engine with manifolds & turbo weighs about 200-250 lbs.

I figure with header and transmission, we're looking 300-350 lbs.

Not bad!!

[dwmtl1000s]

Anyone know if the Caliber engine is Al or iron?

I bet in a year or so AEM will also have a stand alone ECU is they are so close. You can also bet 6 speeds will become more common with gas prices.