Mongrel Motorworks

[Karlo]

When person has dream to own a "race" car let only build one from scratch. We should give lots of time to finish the car at their pace. Which might be slow for others. Keep in mind start-up car companies usually do not have million$ to work with.

[cheapracer]

When person has dream to own a "race" car let only build one from scratch. We should give lots of time to finish the car at their pace. Which might be slow for others. Keep in mind start-up car companies usually do not have million$ to work with.

It's a little more complicated as a few here know.

First I build a sample item, decide how long it takes to make, how much cost and time involved and if someone else who doesn't care as much as I do can replicate it to my standards when I'm not around to oversee the process.

Then I test it, make a drawing for record and then make a template/jig/mould to replicate it as well as finding a source that is both common and reliable let alone price.

Then we come to doing all this in another culture...... :eyecrazy:

[africanstyle]

Come one cheap... you got the video camera, you got the car, you got the location, you got some eager spectators... what more do you need? Please get us a video, pretty please! :)

[enginium]

I like the tone of this conversation a lot more now! : )

1. Trust me. I got a 2nd degree sunburn & almost suffered a heat stroke driving the Atom for 1,000 miles on I-5 and around LA traffic in August. Unbearable! The only time I appreciated the radiator was in the evening, when it acted as a cabin heater while the exposed engine bay allowed it to cool down to 178 degrees. As you know, even these bikes and race cars place the radiator up front for better cooling over driver comfort, but if you can prove that your engine can perform better with the radiator behind the exhaust, more power to you.

2. Yes, I know the Chinese market more than you think, since I analyzed the market potential for Ford when I was the marketing manager there. Last time I was in Qingdao, China (November) I didn't see any Suzuki Altos. Maybe in India still, but you know even the low-income Chinese nowadays want bigger, more powerful cars than the 800cc Altos from early 90's.

3. I lifted the Atom frame at Brammo before I bought mine, and it was slightly less than 100 lbs. w/o the tub. Just by looking at your design (which adds another layer of frame for the engine bay / cockpit, not to mention more body panels), I'm willing to bet that your car will weight more than 1,425 lbs. by the time the wheels & tires seen on your photos are installed. If not, I'll buy you a bowl of wonton soup. : )

4. You're right, people are not fools. That's why given the same choices, they will not buy cars with the stamped-steel suspension parts that look like they came from a parts bin of another production car. If you can build the frame with the steel tubes, it wouldn't hurt to produce wish bones from your shop so at least the entire car looks custom. If you think you'll do fine without them, more power to you.

The fact that I'm a successful commercial real estate developer may not mean much to you (other than the fact that I represent the target U.S. customer pretty well), but my 10+ years at an OEM as a management, as well as having a B.S. in Mech.E., M.S. in Industrial Engr. & MBA should qualify me as someone who knows cars a little more than an average Joe. If you like the Ford Indigo (on which I worked with Reynard to get it track-ready), you now know why I like the Sonic7 more than other exocars. : )

BTW, I'm not an enemy. I'm an equal opportunity lover! LOL
Hey Mr Superhero,
You sound like Kung Fu Panda not a superhero, deafened by your own awesomeness... Next time can you write to another forum. I didnt see anyone enjoying your negativity or sarcasm.
Tell someone else about your resume, Chinese marketing an successful property development... Im sure they will be fascinated.
..All talk...? Says you! Thats the irony.

[FIAROADSTER]

um,,,,,,,,,did I miss something? How did we get out here in left field?

[enginium]

um,,,,,,,,,did I miss something? How did we get out here in left field?
Sorry was a litte late in response on page 11... This guy was blowing his own horn and being condescending and rude to cheapracer. Thought Id chime in and give my 2 cents. Its all good ;}

[Gage]

Originally Posted by mkim1 View Post

3. I lifted the Atom frame at Brammo before I bought mine, and it was slightly less than 100 lbs. w/o the tub. Just by looking at your design (which adds another layer of frame for the engine bay / cockpit, not to mention more body panels), I'm willing to bet that your car will weight more than 1,425 lbs. by the time the wheels & tires seen on your photos are installed. If not, I'll buy you a bowl of wonton soup. : )

For the record.. An Ecotec Atom weighs between 1420 and and 1450 pounds, or 645kg to 660kg. A Honda Atom weighs around 1300 pounds, 550kg to 580KG. The weight difference is attributed mostly to the engine and transmission difference. The Ecotec block is famous for being overbuilt and no Ecotec Atom motor has failed to my knowledge.

[NormL]

For the record.. An Ecotec Atom weighs between 1420 and and 1450 pounds, or 645kg to 660kg. A Honda Atom weighs around 1300 pounds, 550kg to 580KG. The weight difference is attributed mostly to the engine and transmission difference. The Ecotec block is famous for being overbuilt and no Ecotec Atom motor has failed to my knowledge.

Gage curious where you got the numbers from. I have never seen that kind of disparity in weight unless it was UK to Brammo, but, Brammo to Brammo I have never seen that kind of difference.

[Gage]

From posts on the Atom club forum by individual owners who took their cars to be weighed_ in one case on more than one scale.

I'm a big Atom fan but I have always found their weight to be badly understated. Check wikipedia for example. But that trend is normal I suppose.

[cheapracer]

Sorry was a litte late in response on page 11... This guy was blowing his own horn and being condescending and rude to cheapracer. Thought Id chime in and give my 2 cents. Its all good ;}

Thanks and I do appreciate it but I also don't mind at all, I fully believe in reasonable expression :thumb2:, it's just a computer which I turn off and go back to my real life :)

Anyway after 3 weeks I believe today I found the springs I have been looking for for the front, annoyingly lucky with the rear in comparison which was 3 days to get a starting point. There isn't a local custom spring works you can head off to here, it's a matter of searching after finding where to search and I found a good range of high quality springs to choose from and got a bag of rates to test.

I need to find some platforms to suit tomorrow and then if it's not raining finally get it out of the factory and on the road.

[cheapracer]

From posts on the Atom club forum by individual owners who took their cars to be weighed_ in one case on more than one scale.

I'm a big Atom fan but I have always found their weight to be badly understated. Check wikipedia for example. But that trend is normal I suppose.

I'm sure the very first cars were nearer to 500kgs but they have changed from then.

[NormL]

From posts on the Atom club forum by individual owners who took their cars to be weighed_ in one case on more than one scale.

I'm a big Atom fan but I have always found their weight to be badly understated. Check wikipedia for example. But that trend is normal I suppose.

I have seen the credible weights for Brammo's vary between +/-1375 to 1450, but, never a variance based upon engine. A variance based upon engine would make sense, I just don't recall seeing it.

[dred]

Just some constructive criticsm. Maybe someone else can hopefully give an opinion. The back body panel, the panel behind the head, looks terrible in my opinion. It reminds me of the bat-mobile for some reason. I honestly think you should consider modification.

I know cheap racer has said that you can't have everything in the car when it is so cheap, and it can't compare to an ariel atom. Well I think that is just a lame excuse.

Well what I don't understand is, body panels don't cost anything more. The way the car looks should not have any concern for price. You have the same amount of material in your body panels as an ariel atom. I never really understood your statement when you said your car can't look as good as an ariel atom because ariel atom is a 50,000+ priced car.

Well my question is why not, why can't it look like the ariel atom? It is the body panels and frame that makes the look of these cars. The reason why I am posting this now is because of that Nirvana motorsports car. When I first saw it I was like man that is an awsome car, who made it. I never really liked the look of the SLR, but I was amazed when I found out it is an SLR just some minor body modifications that make it look amazing, at least from the rear. This bascially proved my point that body panels make a huge difference, and for almost no extra increase in cost you can have a much much nicer looking car.

It simply takes no extra time to get on the drawing board and design a nice body for the car. You have plenty of people who will offer you design help for free. I am not saying your car is totally ugly, but I think the rear needs modification and I'm sure other parts as well. And if it did cost a whopping 500-1000 bucks more for a much more futuristic agressive design, than I am sure most people would pay it.

Please give your opinions about this.

[enginium]

Agree with costing comments. In my opinon, I think it looks better than an Atom.
Perhaps you could do it yourself and save some money for yourself?

[cheapracer]

Well what I don't understand is, body panels don't cost anything more. The way the car looks should not have any concern for price. You have the same amount of material in your body panels as an ariel atom. I never really understood your statement when you said your car can't look as good as an ariel atom because ariel atom is a 50,000+ priced car.


Please give your opinions about this.

The comment 'it can't look as good as an Atom' was directed towards such detail items such as heim jointed passenger footrests, custom made steering racks, CF bits and pieces etc. - they are certainly not performance items but are eye candy to some. At the price point I simply can not offer those items.

I happen to think the design looks great and by far better than an Atom especially the twin rather than single roll hoops (which I always thought let the Atom down as well as being unsafe) but looks are what a person sees for himself - and thank goodness for that, variety is the spice of life. I am dissapointed at the Atom's looks, I think the looks are dating and they are now into the 3rd series - I guess the waiting list is a good argument against that though.

I would have liked Atom to have gone to twin roll hoops rather than the single and that ugly after thought roll bar some use and I'm surprised with the money that goes into some of them that no body has done twin hoops themselves.

I couldn't agree with you more about pricing and looks. You buy one, spend weeks making a buck - molds - trimming - first piece - trimming etc. and if it looks good I'll buy the molds from you.

[cheapracer]

This is an older picture but gives you a better view of it.

[cheapracer]

I dont think it would be the hardest thing to do to an Atom besides improving the aero especially with 2 people.

[trboboost91]

for what its worth i think its awsome!

any updates on stateside appearance?

[Gage]

This is an older picture but gives you a better view of it.

I like the pictures Cheapracer. More please. (as progress allows)

[cheapracer]

I like the pictures Cheapracer. More please. (as progress allows)

Stripped it all down yesterday and things are off to be powdercoated.

[Bushflyr]

I had to join the forum just to comment on this thread. I've loved the Atom since it came out, but there's no way I could afford/or want to pay that kind of money for what, in reality, is just a toy. Your Mongrel, OTOH is just what the doctor ordered. Well designed (from what I can see) really good looking, and cheap fun. Something to consider though. One is: Have you considered using the Subaru 2.0 and 2.5L engines? They are uber reliable, many see well over 200k. Super cheap, super available, easy to mod, and the 2.0l WRX motor will reliably and cheaply put out 400bhp all day long. The transmission is simply converted to FWD by slapping a block off plate on the tail shaft. The whole package is slightly longer than a typical FWD drivetrain, but the lower CG may make that a worthwhile trade off.

[trboboost91]

updates?

[spctr]

yeah some updates soon or i might die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cheapracer]

Mongrel Motorworks will now go into a short hiatus to setup new premises and production structuring.

Expect some cobwebs - this is China, if it was easy everyone would be doing it.

[B-T]

So I guess there was never any video of this car driving around? How about the cars that were going to be in the US for people to look at in January? This sounds like the project is dead.
:(
BT

[cheapracer]

Maybe you didn't see my post above....

"Mongrel Motorworks will now go into a short hiatus to setup new premises and production structuring".

Very far from dead - it's as simple as I'm not going to discuss all my business structuring and plans publically. The way I want to do it that everyone will benefit from in the long run is taking time. You'll be hard pressed to find other Westerners doing similar projects out of China, I know of one and they are down to their last month of running capital - like me it has taken them more than 2 years to do what should have taken 6 months in our systems. They are packing up and going back to the States.

[cheapracer]

I am always contactable through cheapracer@yahoo.com by the way.

[B-T]

Sorry, but it seems eerily similar to other start up kit car companies. Lots of talk, a picture here and there, but no definitive specs, no video of a running car, no cars that people can actually look at. Have you got a backlog of orders? It seems like there are lots of people here asking for images / video / demo cars to look at or ride in. It seems that you either have already gotten orders from them, or have such faith in your design that you feel bypassing this type of information being released will somehow scare buyers away?

With all your expertise in racing and the various reasons you call out others for design flaws, I was sure you would be proud to show how your design was superior with detailed photos, etc... But I guess not. At the end of February you were getting everything powdercoated. Why not show off what you have built?

Good luck with the sales plan.
:)
BT

[OneFastRide]

Figures... A couple of black and white pictures of a chassis that looks like it was welded by my little sister (she's five), and a lot of HOT AIR. I must say I never expected much... :thumbdown2::thumbdown2::thumbdown2:

[B-T]

Time will tell, but I think that this project was just for fun.
Maybe he wants to sell to other markets and the handful of people in this thread aren't worth the trouble to answer questions or show any details. If other people that Cheapracer enjoyed tearing down had the same attitude then he would not even have had the opportunity to insult them. This "Short hiatus" is just a quiet exit IMHO.
:thumbdown2:
BT

[ViperJustin]

Agreed with the last two posts. I was checking this out for quite sometime until about last fall, when from then on it looked like this was just hot air. Thats why through a LOT of homework, I decided to go with the RCR. I looked at the Brunton car too, but just decided that the RCR looked a lot better. And, its a PROVEN design (just check out the Aussies), awesome engineering from an actual engineer, and plenty of pics when asked for them. Two things I dont get: Why the black and white pics? And why no detail shots (close-ups)?


Definitely, DEAD!

[cordycord]

I don't think anyone can argue with the choice of an SL-R.

Whether Cheap gets his gig going or not, I think he's shown his colors.

[cheapracer]

I don't think anyone can argue with the choice of an SL-R.

Whether Cheap gets his gig going or not, I think he's shown his colors.

Says the man who bought a Sonic, bitched and complained about it and then bought the eXo thingy.

WTF are you doing in this thread now? You know it's one thing to be part of a team that removes every single post of mine from the SLR threads for whatever reason and I was quite happy to leave it at that and go on my merry way but it's another thing to then come along and post your SLR comment and your smart ass personal comment in here long after that deed was done.

You should have left the sleeping dog lay.

[golftdibrad]

http://www.exocars.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3310&stc=1&d=1273249728

Kinda like Tom Cruise in Jerry McGuire, at this point im just like "SHOW ME THE CAR!!!!"