First USA Sonic7! -- & also my first build... [Archive]

cordycord

01-02-2009, 07:31 PM

This thread should be started by first thanking my wife, who said YES to allowing me to order a Sonic7, and got me an AWESOME set of Makita lithium ion power tools for Christmas! I spoke with Stuart Mills of MEV Ltd. before he left for Christmas vacation, and he said that my car should be ready to ship some time in mid to late February. This is good, as it will give me time get ready for the build, line up parts, and most importantly, line up help!

I'm lucky because Dave Green of DG Motorsports and Tony Woodford of AWR Racing have already agreed to help with the build. I'm also getting information from the MEV website, some of the links to personal builds there, and to Nigel on this site. Karlo has also been giving loads of links and information on all aspects of the build.

So while I may get the first Sonic7 in the U.S., I may not be the first to finish! Let's hope that all goes well, and I'll keep everyone posted on the progress.

cordycord

01-02-2009, 08:01 PM

I almost forgot--the most exciting and most daunting part of the build will be the motor. I've decided to install a MazdaSpeed3 DISI motor and transmission. It's a 2.3 liter turbocharged, intercooled, direct injection (DISI), all-aluminum drive-by-wire motor mated to a 6 speed transmission. This thing puts out 265hp stock, and easily makes 300hp and 300ft/lbs torque just by opening up the intake and re-mapping the computer. I think it's also close to PZEV (partial zero emissions vehicle) in terms of emissions, so I don't feel bad about it being a rocket ship!

The good news is that the DISI motor is actually based on the Duratec motor and should share the same block mounting points, although the transmission looks different. Stuart has agreed to help us with the initial motor mounts, although we'll probably need to do some measuring and fabrication. The Sonic7 frame is supposed to be something like 7 times stiffer than a Lotus 7, so it should easily handle the extra torque.

The bad news is that we'll have to figure out the drive-by-wire and all the other electronics. It's going to be difficult to avoid the dreaded "limp home mode" if we trip one of a million fault codes in the OEM computer. Any ideas and suggestions are welcome at this point.

Chadillac

01-02-2009, 09:36 PM

Congragulations! Keep us updated on your build.

I can't imagine how fast that car is going to be with 300 hp.

cordycord

01-02-2009, 09:44 PM

Thanks Chad,

I think your signature line just about says it all...:)

cheapracer

01-03-2009, 05:58 AM

Best of luck Mate.

mkim1

01-03-2009, 02:41 PM

I'm so jealous! Perhaps we can help each other out since I'm trying to order one myself. I'll post a separate thread on my potential order shortly... Good luck! : )

cordycord

01-03-2009, 11:47 PM

Order it up!

Gage

01-04-2009, 09:40 AM

I am thrilled to hear about your project. We'll be following along with your progress. It inspires many of us.

CMC#5

01-05-2009, 01:42 PM

cordycord

01-05-2009, 01:58 PM

Congratulations and good luck. Are you planning on sourcing the engine/trans direct from Mazda or ? If the source is a wrecked 6/cx7 it will make things a lot easier as you can grab all the wiring/control boxes/sensors etc.

The motor is from a MazdaSpeed6, while the transmission is from a Speed3. My buddy Dave had it laying around, so I traded him an old Miata for it. Dave will be very involved with the build, so you might as well see his site:

www.DGMotorsports.com

Let me know what you think. BTW, his 4WD MazdaSpeed3 is OUTRAGEOUS.

cordycord

01-05-2009, 07:20 PM

I stopped by the local powder coater today--7 minutes away. I confirmed that they have a big enough bake booth for the Sonic frame, as I'll receive it w/o powder coating. There are too many variables as to engine mounts, radiator mounts, etceteras, for it to make sense to send it painted. One other good point--the powder coater, gives a rattle can of the powder coat color in order to cover nicks, which will probably be needed.

A neighbor to the coater is Pacific Composites, LLC. I went in out of curiousity and ended up speaking with the owner, Ian Ashdown. It turns out that these guys just built the bodywork for the new Fisker show car (the electric one), and that the owner was one of the primary designers for the last IRL race car. He had some fascinating stories, including talking about how his father had raced for Lotus and Lola, and how he grew up in the British cottage industry of racing cars. He’s hooked now, and is also building two Lotus 11’s as well as a replica of the Lola that his father raced at LeMans! I also saw a few Brammo Ariel Atom bits lying around. ;)

The conversation was fascinating and went on for longer than I had intended–he was running a company after all. He and I both agreed that given the resources with Orange County CA, nearly anything could be made.

cordycord

01-06-2009, 01:35 PM

No, it's not a person, it's the Sears digital level that I bought for $25 today! These things are GREAT, as they measure to 1/10 of a degree, and have a small form factor. Stick them on your suspension, just-welded frame, welding bench, etceteras.

It used to be that only Smart Tool made a digital level for $100 for the housing industry. Some serious motorcycle racing teams found out about the tool, and would take measurements at the forks, frame, swingarm and gas tank to normalize the suspension. Tweaks to the rear ride height would invariably affect the fork rake & trail, etceteras. For the builder or racer, this is a great addition for any toolbox.

part #948295

http://sonic7usa.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/level.jpg?w=1

Nigel

01-06-2009, 02:32 PM

Great to see you've joined the Sonic 7 club, not sure what spec you have ordered from MEV ? What is your plan on brakes / steering ?

cordycord

01-06-2009, 03:17 PM

Nigel

01-07-2009, 02:59 PM

Thanks Nigel, I'm hoping to learn from your build as much as possible, as my car won't be ready for a while. I won't be using a donor Focus because of the Mazda motor, so have some flexibility with everything else. That's a benefit and a problem as you can well imagine.

I still plan to use the Wilwood brake setup, but will probably connect steering wheel to rack via aftermarket bits. The rack is the optional 2.4 at the moment. I'm also toying with using a hub with a different wheel bolt pattern so as to have other rim options.

Going to be a very interesting project.

I mention the brakes a if your going to use the Wilwood 4pots on the front you might want to consider the 4pot Wilwood rears as well i know if i was going to build one with anything over 200+ BHP its the route I'd take.

The sonic uses Cortina front uprights/hubs, if you wish to reduce weight than there are a good range of rally alternatives. Take a look at Rally Designs site www.rallydesign.co.uk

I will be watching your build with interest.

cordycord

01-07-2009, 08:18 PM

mkim1

01-07-2009, 11:44 PM

I totally agree with you guys on the brakes. I went with base brakes (GM Camaro brakes) on my Atom, thinking that they should be good enough for a 1,350 lb. car, and it ended up being the weakest link of the car. When I order mine (after I see the hardtop option), I'll also go with vented / slotted / drilled discs w/ min. 4-piston up front, and make sure to get eiher EBC Yellow Stuff pads or Hawk HP Plus pads.

BTW Cord, you probably meant to say 40/60 weight bias, right? : ) My Atom was 38/62, which made the burnouts (intentional or not) quite fun!

cordycord

01-08-2009, 12:21 AM

I've had some long conversations with the guys at StopTech (had Big Brakes on my S2000) and Ferodo. Bottom line is that slotted are preferable to drilled, and the pad needs to match the use--track pad for the track, street pad for the street. The only company that does a good "drilled" rotor is Porsche, and that's because they forge the "drill" holes in with the blank in order to prevent the inevitable cracks.

Yes, I did mean 40/60. Hell, if Atom can scoot around with those number, I guess the Sonic won't have too much trouble. Did you spend much time with Ackerman setup?

mkim1

01-08-2009, 12:40 AM

Yeah, I know. The drilled holes are more for show, but I just love the way they look with brake dust captured in these holes and dimples. : ) BTW, John (the owner of Stop Tech) is such a nice guy that, during the 2007 USCC, he actually helped me as a navigator (I was a 1-man-show) in the fuel economy stage. And yes, he destroyed the field in the braking test.

I don't know what Ackerman setup is, but Brammo custom-set my car up with me inside it and all 4 wheels on scales. All camber / ride height / spring rates were done perfectly for me. Damn, I miss that car... : )

Nigel

01-08-2009, 12:35 PM

Thanks Nigel,

I actually tried to look for uprights on the Rally Design web site last night, but they weren't showing up in a search. As for the Wilwood 4 pots, I agree. I intend to call Willwood and let them guide my braking decision, as I'd like the fronts to work well with the backs. The build is first, but next is taming a car with all that horsepower and a 60/40 weight bias! :) Can you say snap oversteer?! The next time you're in the garage, please confirm the width of the frame, as I'm also playing with some other ideas....

Try putting the quick code in "RCV02". (RMD Lightweight Ally Upright Kit - Cortina Geomentry)

http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=11815

I recommend you contact them and ask them to send you a motorsport catalogue - I have found the catalogue very useful

What width are you looking for ? The interior cockpit width is 41 & 1/4 inch's or 105cm.

Regards Nigel

cordycord

01-08-2009, 10:24 PM

Thanks Nigel, I'll give Rally Design a call tomorrow. Karlo suggested trying to get the hub undrilled so I could put my own pattern in--a 5 bolt or other. The 4x108 is not a popular pattern over here....4x100 has many more wheel sizes available. I'll try to go up to a 5 bolt because of the horsepower.

My reason for the cockpit width--I'm considering using aluminum honeycomb for the floor, and the standard panel width is 4' x 8' for commercial sheets. It's a bit over the top and not necessary, but neither is the engine I'm using. Bottom line, I may be going the wrong way with both choices on a car that would work perfectly with a 2.0 Duratec, but I've started down this path...

Thanks again,

Cord

mkim1

01-09-2009, 10:10 AM

Cord,

I love the fact that you are trying different ways, which makes it easier for others to follow.

I sent an email to Stuart also, but 5 x 4.25" or 4.5" lug pattern can get us so much more choices especially because of all the Mustang wheels in the aftermarket. Stuart said he can put LHD Mustang steering rack and suspension for easier brake / wheel selection in the U.S. market.

FYI, I'll be going with Sumitomo HTR Z's (245/50ZR16 & 315/35ZR17) at 14 psi since I'm amazed by the traction of these tires on my '08 Mustang (275/40ZR18) and the Atom's recommended psi of 14 (front) /16 (rear) heated up these summer tires (faster-wearing, though) well while providing a more comfortable ride. I tried 44 psi for fuel economy, and while getting 30 mpg, the ride was PUNISHING! : )

If your Aluminum honeycomb works well, I might copy your design!

Nigel

01-09-2009, 11:46 AM

cordycord

01-16-2009, 05:28 PM

Holy crap! I ordered some nuts, bolts, washers and riv-nuts from McMaster Carr today at 11:30am, and they were just delivered ON THE SAME DAY! Now that is what I call service!

For anyone who doesn't know, check out www.McMaster.com. These guys have everything and more, and also have a very good search engine that makes things easy to find. Further, many of their parts also include diagrams with all important sizes and strength listings.

cordycord

01-18-2009, 02:24 PM

I'm going to let the cat out of the bag a little early--I was going to leave it as a surprise. Before even seeing the original show car ko7 that the Sonic7 is based on, I was planning on having my paint scheme be black and chrome. Just like the damn show car. Actually, I'm considering making the side pods in smoked chrome. Red chrome was a possibility, but I've seen those colors fade in the past.

There's a company with a relatively new paint process that shoots "chrome" using a three step process and a special dual nozzle. You can find out more about it here:

http://www.sprayonchrome.com/Gallery.html

Anyone with mad PhotoChop skills is welcome to make a Sonic7 with black center and smoke chrome side pods--I'd LOVE to see it.

So what's the consensus?

Karlo

01-18-2009, 04:28 PM

I tried to photoshop the Sonic7 in chrome but it is a very difficult color for me, amateur. Very unique "rich" Looking.

cdmershon

01-22-2009, 07:04 PM

What Sonic7 is that because it looks a lot different from any other pictures of it? Post up some pictures if there are more. I know the paint is photoshoped but the rest of the car looks awesome! What auto show was it at?

Karlo

01-22-2009, 07:29 PM

See Thread Below

http://www.exocars.net/showthread.php?t=2267

cordycord

01-27-2009, 07:26 PM

Nigel

01-30-2009, 03:17 PM

I just found out today that the car will be ready around the first week of March. I'm excited, but really don't have much to do prior to its arrival since I'm using a non-standard engine and transmission. If I move along half as quickly as Nigel I'll consider it a fast build. :)

Well I've had a great afternoon/evening in the gararge "workshop" and i'm clear for a weekends work, so, i hope to get a bit done. :D I think your going to enjoy this build 'cordycord' I just hope you don't have as much fellting as i've had :(.

You say you have nothing to do 'WRONG' :thumbdown2: the key to any successful build is preperation preperation preperation, are your facilities ready ?, have you got all the necessary tools, are all the donor parts cleaned and ready for installation ?????

Beleive me you can never do enufe prep.

But I will say if you enjoy it half as much as I have you'll will be happy. :spin:

cordycord

01-30-2009, 04:23 PM

Wrong?! Maybe, maybe not. :) I'm not using a donor, so there will be no cleaning or checking on donor parts. I'll be buying the extra "stuff" the car needs when it arrives and when we put the Mazda DISI motor in it. Only then will I be able to take measurements and get a true idea of what the car needs. Other than that I've got a great set of tools, and access to Dave Green's "studio of carbon creation" as well as Tony Woodford's "race car heaven", where he booted out the vintage Renault F1 car to make room for mine. :)

I'm looking forward to getting started!

Nigel

01-30-2009, 04:33 PM

cordycord

01-30-2009, 04:35 PM

If they say, "His build turned out as nice as Nigel's car.", I'll be a happy camper. :)

britvette

02-04-2009, 11:32 AM

cordycord

02-04-2009, 11:37 PM

I couldn't find one on the web either. It's a fairly simple tool, but you'll use it in two ways:
a) A simple level. Set it down, turn it on, read the readout to a tenth of a degree.

b) Zero out function. You set it down, hit the zero button, and your surface now becomes "zero". Now you can check for "level" on an uneven surface, check angles without having to do the math in your head, and any number of other things that you won't think of until you're out there in the shop.

Hell, I was surprised the first time I turned it on and the readout gave me the ambient temperature!

britvette

02-05-2009, 09:34 AM

Thanks for the quick reply :thumb2:
I was surprised to see the temp too !! It seemed pretty simple to use but it was the zero bit that I was not sure on .
I contacted sears to see if they could send me a copy but they sent one for a laser measuring tool instead . I asked them to try again and this morning they have sent another email with the correct manual.

Looks like it is going to be a really useful tool

Thanks
Paul

cordycord

02-08-2009, 03:42 PM

The Mazda DISI engine, with only 500 miles, has been sitting quietly by itself on a trailer under a tarp, waiting to be put in some supersonic light weight race car. :) We now have it at AWR Racing where it will be prepped and ready for the frame.

Here's the plan--the bowling-ball sized starter motor is coming off, as is the power steering unit and a/c compressor. A small Miata starter will go where the power steering unit is now--lighter and set lower than the original. We've pulled off the crank pulley, idler pulley and water pump pulley. I'll have these remade in hard anodized 6065 T6 aluminum so they spin up faster, and look "cooler". I may underdrive the main crank, as this car won't need the extra amps at all. The shorter belt and underdrive could give us an extra 8-10 free horsepower. Or more?

In addition to the pulleys, the extra intercooler hoses will come off--probably replaced with silicone units. No crazy colors. The engine is clean, but needs to be cleaned up with some Scotchbrite.

Tony has suggested that we take off the stock clutch and flywheel and replace it with lighter units. As the clutch will be pushing 2,000lbs less car around, it's probably a good idea.

The other side of the motor has the exhaust manifold, the turbocharger and the catalytic converter. It's a nice, compact unit and should fit in the Sonic nicely. I didn't know this until yesterday, but the MX5 (Miata) is also based on the same Duratec block. It's funny--all of the extra "stuff" on this engine and the extra Miata parts that were laying around Tony's shop all said "FoMoCo" on them. :)

http://sonic7usa.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/img_14162.jpg?w=497&h=331

Karlo

02-10-2009, 12:11 PM

Cord Black panels at the factory, kinda of neat "rainbow"

cordycord

02-10-2009, 04:52 PM

Tell Stuart to feel free to cut out my suspension holes when he's got some free time. :)

cheapracer

02-12-2009, 06:42 AM

I was planning on having my paint scheme be black and chrome. ?

aaaaaaaa

cordycord

02-21-2009, 11:04 PM

This is the stuff I'm considering for the Sonic side pods. Of all the silver paint I've seen, this stuff looks most like real chrome. I'm considering putting on a light smoke top coat in order to give it more of an aluminum look. Maybe...

http://www.sprayonchrome.com/images/MCpage2.gif

Karlo

02-22-2009, 07:40 AM

That should be a show stopper!!`

Chadillac

02-22-2009, 12:34 PM

I'm excited to see how it turns out. Are you going to have some chrome wheels to match it? I think that would look pretty cool.

cordycord

02-22-2009, 05:33 PM

Chad,

I decided to go the other way--I'm going with black wheels to match the other sections of the Sonic. I hope it will give more of a sport-race look. I'm hoping we can make the chrome have more of a polished aluminum reflection, and I'm REALLY hoping that every little flub and dead bug doesn't stand out like a sore thumb on the surface.

cordycord

02-24-2009, 04:50 PM

Karlo put out a teaser note saying that the Sonic was on the cover of Kit Car UK magazine, but little else. Aargh! I guess that the editor didn't want him to drop an article on this forum, forgoing a magazine purchase. :)

Seeing as I had a deposit down, I went out to the web site and ordered up a magazine. I haven't read the whole article, but here are some snippets:

"Ian Hyne is thoroughly impressed with the new Sonic 7 -- its simplicity, its quality, its ease of build, its affordability but chiefly its brilliant styling and standard 230 bhp per ton Ford Focus driver performance."

"The dossier on the Sonic chassis pronounced it fully fit for purpose and recorded a torsional deflection figure of 2000lb/ft per degree, which is a figure worthy of a Formula Ford single seater whilst weight is a creditable 67 kgs."

"Nor is it merely the styling that makes it so good but also the manner in which the body panels are fitted and mate with each other."

"Using the donor Focus engine wiring loom and ECU, leaves you with just 15 wires coming out of the ECU. Four of them go to the ignition module after which it really is a doddle to wire up everything else."

"On MEV's short track, driving the Sonic 7 is all action with hard acceleration, firm braking, quick gearchanges and lots of wheel twirling."

There's PLENTY more, but I think you get the idea. I'd also say that while the U.S. has lost one of two main kit car mags, the UK seems to have a healthy little industry going on. I'd recommend ordering up at least one Kit Car magazine, just to see the advertisements.

cheapracer

02-24-2009, 06:30 PM

britvette

02-24-2009, 06:39 PM

Short track? Do they mean short wheelbase or narrow track? I like the Sonic a lot and I reckon it should be the "Locost" design of this millenium (makes a Locost 7's styling look very old now) but lets credit the styling for where it actually came from but thank MEV anyway for making it locost.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&newwindow=1&q=Kit+Car+UK&btnG=Search

.

I think they are referring to the small race track that they have at the MEV factory for demo/test driving the demonstrator cars to potential customers.

Paul

cordycord

02-24-2009, 07:09 PM

At the time of the article the Sonic was not yet street-legal, and testing was limited to MEV's 3/4 mile test track. Hey, it's cool to have a test track on site, no matter how short. :)

I agree with you regarding Locost and MEV. I think MEV has improved on the design, and it takes some real ingenuity to transform a Ford Focus into, lets face it, a car with world-class performance potential. At least on the short track. :)

cordycord

02-24-2009, 10:03 PM

I had a stand made to easily move the Sonic frame around and to work on it without constantly crouching. With the caster wheels, this stand should allow me to work standing or on my roller seat, as well as let me move the car around as needed. I may add a lower shelf for tools, parts, etceteras. We’ll see.

http://content9.clipmarks.com/blog_cache/sonic7usa.wordpress.com/img/CB11A98B-1C9C-4433-A7F3-749896729825

http://content6.clipmarks.com/blog_cache/sonic7usa.wordpress.com/img/07CBA914-2704-4207-B666-DD0CB272C13C

cordycord

02-24-2009, 10:29 PM

Not that the DISI motor needs it, but I'm going to replace some of the pulleys with lightened, hard anodized units. The main crank pulley will be 20% smaller than stock (under driven), giving extra horsepower with no discernible negatives. OEM's are always very cautious about these things, and overcompensate by a minimum of 25% at the alternator. I'm not worried about the water pump pulley as the Sonic has two nearly six foot long sections of aluminum tubing to cool the water down nicely. The sections also add greatly to the overall amount of engine coolant-no problems.

I'm pretty sure that the DISI pulleys also fit the MX5 Miata, and may even fit the other Duratec motors, although there may be different timing plates.

http://sonic7usa.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/cimg4089.jpghttp://sonic7usa.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/cimg4096.jpg

cordycord

02-24-2009, 10:41 PM

As long as I'm a posting fool tonight, what do you think of these lights? Would they look better than the current Sonic 7 setup?

http://sonic7usa.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/cimg4156.jpg?w=497&h=372

cheapracer

02-25-2009, 02:47 AM

I had a stand made to easily move the Sonic frame around and to work on it without constantly crouching. With the caster wheels, this stand should allow me to work standing or on my roller seat, as well as let me move the car around as needed. I may add a lower shelf for tools, parts, etceteras. We’ll see.

]

Why don't you make a spit?

Lights are a thing that you don't know until you try them.

Pagester

02-25-2009, 08:40 AM

i agree with the lights - I like both styles, but you never really know until they are on the car

Karlo

02-25-2009, 09:51 AM

I think they look better than the "frog" eyes, but Pagester is right, mount them and see

cheapracer

02-25-2009, 10:40 AM

As long as I'm a posting fool tonight, what do you think of these lights? Would they look better than the current Sonic 7 setup?

http://sonic7usa.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/cimg4156.jpg?w=497&h=372

nide deng dongxi zhongguole ma?

cordycord

02-26-2009, 11:40 AM

No, these aren't made in China, although they may be available in a Hi/Lo setup later this year. They are also "e" approved, and are robust enough to run HID. While I like the lights on the Sonic, they remind me of a Super 7 or even of a dune buggy. I think that these lights will give a more "purposeful" look.

edit--I should add that there's nothing wrong with a Super 7 or even a dune buggy. It's the equivalent of having vertical taillights on a car and being reminded of a Cadillac. It's a design cue, not a design flaw.

I agree with the posts above--we won't know until they're on the car...

cheapracer

02-27-2009, 11:56 AM

edit--I should add that there's nothing wrong with a Super 7 or even a dune buggy. ...

Nope, it's too late Mate, you have been reported to the appropriate authorities in these areas. Knowing how sensitive the Dune Buggy Guys are you would be well advised to sleep with your lights on. :nervous:

cordycord

03-03-2009, 12:05 AM

To make it easier to test-fit, I removed a few of the peripheral items from the engine–most won’t go back on. The starter, a/c compressor and power steering were removed, as well as some of the more unwieldy hoses. These included water and intercooler hoses.

I also took off the Speed3 stock clutch and flywheel. It’s a strange unit with what seems like a built-in vibration damper. In any case, it has been the weak link in the drive train and no one much cares for it. It will be replaced with a unit that will probably be over 20lbs lighter.

Everything we’re doing is giving us free horsepower!

http://sonic7usa.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/img_1551.jpg?w=497&h=330

cordycord

03-03-2009, 12:12 AM

Just for grins, here's a race car suspension that ran the Macau Grand Prix "back in the day". I took the picture last month in Macau at their Grand Prix museum. The museum included Formula cars driven by Senna, Schumacher, and a few other notables.

The quality and detail in today's cars from MEV and from RCR easily eclipse the quality and even horsepower to weight ratio of these older racers. They're still pretty neat...

http://sonic7usa.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/img_1458.jpg

Chadillac

03-03-2009, 07:54 AM

cordycord

03-03-2009, 08:18 AM

Looking great! When I put my engine in I forgot to plug the hole for the heater core right above the thermostat housing. And now I can't get to it. Very frustrating...

I was reading an article in Motortrend a while ago and the writer got to drive an old F1 car (maybe 4 years old). In the article he mentioned the power and weight of the car. 1145 lbs. and 650 hp. While I was reading it I thought, "with a turbocharger, and some engine work, I could produce those same numbers!" With these exocars, it's possible to have a street legal F1 car! Except without the downforce, aerodynamics and sticky tires of course.

Most of the cars in the museum were Formula 2000 or Formula Junior, so our cars are already at or better than their horsepower to weight ratio.

BTW--I'd guess that 40lbs was taken off the motor yesterday that's not going back on, and half of the external parasitic drag was removed. While I know that I'm setting myself up for a lot of extra work by not using a Focus donor, the Mazda DISI motor is truly special. I also realize that I'll have to have the most restrained right foot in America--the Focus motor would probably have been more than enough.

As for plugging holes, my motor will need to be installed, motor mounts fabricated, and then removed again for powdercoating. It's not the heater core but vacuum lines that frustrate me--one misrouted or uncapped vacuum line and the whole car runs like crap.

cordycord

03-05-2009, 05:00 PM

I sat down with Ian Ashdown yesterday, who penned the last IRL Dallara race car, and mentioned the chassis stiffness of the Sonic 7. He was quite impressed at the 2,000ft/lbs per degree figure and said that the frame is more than stiff enough. I've been thinking about putting in an aluminum honeycomb floor, but it seems as if this is a luxury and not really necessary. It's nice to hear this type of information from someone who would know.

BTW, he's making his own kit car--a Lotus 11 copy, just like the one his dad used to drive when he raced for the factory. Cool.

cordycord

03-09-2009, 01:57 PM

This isn't REALLY related, but here's a YouTube video from last Saturday. It's Dave Green's MazdaSpeed3 with all wheel drive at the SCCA autocross in San Diego. I think you'll like it. After viewing, imagine the same motor pushing around 2,000 pounds LESS. I did. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02P2h995JsM&feature=channel_page

cheapracer

03-10-2009, 01:48 AM

No I didn't like it. I absolutely hate music played over car vids and partly from that and the camera angles I couldn't get an impression of speed.

eisenjj

03-10-2009, 09:42 AM

:mtoo: I didn't really feel it either...Sorry!

I think its kind of funny that people put such music to those types of cars. Sure for what they are they are great, but they are not bad ass like they try to make them seem.

However, it is a great little engine. Mazda makes good stuff! Their own slogan says it best "Zoom, Zoom".

cheapracer

03-10-2009, 11:30 AM

:mtoo:

but they are not bad ass like they try to make them seem.
".

I'm not a big riceburner fan myself but I expect Cords 300hp pushing 700kgs will be something bad ass ;-)

cordycord

03-10-2009, 11:52 AM

I'm not a big riceburner fan myself but I expect Cords 300hp pushing 700kgs will be something bad ass ;-)

700kg? More like 500kg. I'm already afraid of this car...

All right, you critics, I don't think this Youtube was intended for Oscar contention, just to show you a 4wd Speed3! You no likey the sound, hit mute!

cordycord

03-10-2009, 12:01 PM

Stuart has my car boxed and ready to ship. As you can see, the frame is not coated as we'll be making the custom engine mounts, etceteras.

Ship date: Friday the 13th....

B-T

03-10-2009, 01:08 PM

Chadillac

03-10-2009, 01:09 PM

Ship date: Friday the 13th....

If some car ax murderer doesn't get to it first! :flame:

Looks good though. I bet your super excited! Hopefully you can get a tracking number so you know exactly where it's at.

What color are you going to powder coat the frame?

cordycord

03-10-2009, 01:39 PM

Looks good ready to ship! It will be interesting to see what a finished car actually weighs in at for any of these cars. On the Sonic7 gallery http://www.mevltd.co.uk/gallerysonic2.html they show a "design weight" of 300kg on the front end, and 600kg on the rear for a total weight of 900kg (just under 2000 lb). I don't know if the SVA actually weighs the car or if the person bringing the car gives them an estimate, and if the estimate is intended to be accurate or not.
It does not seem like these cars would weigh more than an Ariel Atom.
:)
BT

The car actually weighs around 1,000lbs, as noted one the website. Who knows what kind of gov't loopholes they have to jump through with the SVA documents. The Sonic, even with more bodywork, is lighter than the Atom, the RCR, and many of the other exocars. While the exo-frame is an elegant solution, it's heavier than is required. I have a feeling that anyone driving these exocars anywhere close to their limits will appreciate the nice, big round tubing on the outside--with or without a weight penalty. :)

eisenjj

03-10-2009, 01:57 PM

Looks good! When you get yours done with that engine I would gladly watch a video with the same music. Because this car will live up to the "bad ass" that the other video was trying to convey with the sub compact.

BTW, Friday the 13th was originally considered a lucky day!

cordycord

03-10-2009, 02:43 PM

It's one thing to see a video, another to watch at the track,and still another to be in the car. Believe me, when you're doing 75 mph in a parking lot, it'll get your heart racing!

Yep, I'm hoping that the 13th will be my lucky day as well. It looks like Stuart has done a good job of building the box. Now let's hope some drunken forklift operator doesn't give me some creative bodywork alterations...

cheapracer

03-11-2009, 10:03 AM

700kg? More like 500kg. I'm already afraid of this car...

!

Mate to be honest I will be the first to congratulate you if you acheive 500kgs road licenced with the Mazda donk but good luck anyway, less weight is free hp :-)

I sincerly hope you put it on a weighbridge and report back a factual weight, as you know there is a lot of BS going around about weights for all different vehicles and engines but very few substantiated facts.

cordycord

03-11-2009, 04:10 PM

I seriously doubt I'll hit 1,000lbs either. The 2.3 liter is marginally heavier than the 1.8, and I also plan on using larger rear tires/wheels. When it's done, it will go on scales.

B-T

03-11-2009, 05:57 PM

Honestly, if the finished car with that DISI motor weighs less than 2000 pounds (which I am sure it will), it will be wicked fast!
If you can get it done at 1500 pounds watch out!
:)
BT

cordycord

03-11-2009, 07:42 PM

"according to the brochure", bodywork is about 65kg (143lbs) and frame is 65kg, and the motor should be about 350lbs all in. BTW, the ecotec 2.4 marine engine has a ship weight of 274lbs. Another 100lbs for the transmission gives a total of 750lbs.

I'll still have wheels/tire/suspension, exhaust, gas tank, battery electronics, interior, seats, instrumentation, and I'll be putting in a rollbar as well. That's easily 350-500lbs, but it also puts me at 1,250lbs or less.

This car will be under 1,500lbs and 300hp without even paying attention. Frankly, it's not the weight but the safety that needs to be the first consideration. If I had to do it all again, I probably would have dialed back on the motor--that gas pedal ain't never gonna see the full sweep. :)

B-T

03-12-2009, 07:03 AM

My opinion is that the car you are building with the DISI motor would be a terror at 2000 pounds, so anything less is done in the spirit of nimble handling without the application of power. I have a friend that recently bought an Ultima Can-Am that is 2100 pounds and 723 RWHP. Totally unusable power in anything other than a very long straight line. I certainly would not worry about the weight of the battery, seats, etc... as the difference in cost to go with the lightest items is not worth it. My current mountain attack car is supposedly about 1450 pounds (I've never had it weighed), but I would guess that is a little optimistic. Using relatively skinny 205/50-15 tires with a narrow 60" track, I can push the car faster through turns than I ever imagined when I bought it. I don't need anything faster or lighter really. With the wider track of any exocar, the lighter weight, the wider tires, and the higher horsepower I think the new cars should come with a few sessions of self-restraint training! Looking forward to your build, any guesses on your timeframe for getting the car to testing / on the road???
:)
BT

cheapracer

03-12-2009, 09:12 AM

Using relatively skinny 205/50-15 tires with a narrow 60" track, I can push the car faster through turns than I ever imagined when I bought it.
:)
BT

Thats a point many miss actually, a narrower track (not that 60" is really narrow) can be a blessing on tight to medium mountain roads which is where most have the most fun - I watched Sandro Munari at the Targa Tasmania in 1994 driving the works Lambo Diablo and it was just too darn wide in many of the mountain roads.

cordycord

03-12-2009, 12:34 PM

JonCor2577

03-15-2009, 03:58 PM

How much did shipping set you back? (It has to come from England right?) I'm curious if that is a potential deal buster...

cordycord

03-15-2009, 07:06 PM

Naw--not a deal buster. I decided to ship by air to LAX, just because I'm stupid like that. I think the price is about $1,200, while ocean freight is about $500 less. That's actually not bad. Not bad at all.

dwmtl1000s

03-17-2009, 12:32 AM

Its going to be a damn cool car!

cordycord

03-24-2009, 08:08 AM

The car is supposed to be delivered today!!!! Pictures will follow...

cheapracer

03-24-2009, 09:29 AM

Good luck Mate, sincerly.

Chadillac

03-24-2009, 11:35 AM

Woohoo! Can't wait for pictures.

cordycord

03-24-2009, 10:03 PM

It finally arrived today! I unpacked the bodywork and extra parts. Frankly, I had a splitting headache, so it was a pretty sloppy job on my part. Sorry about the bubble pack, but I'm not taking off the wrapping until needed.

Overall, it's a very tidy package. The car size is deceiving--long & lean & low, but still it has a longer wheelbase and wider track than the Miata, Cobra and other comparable cars. Note the picture I took inside the car--I'm looking UP at a racing Miata. :)

The frame fits neatly on the cart, and easily moves around. It's held tight with c-clamps, so hopefully we won't have an accident before the wheels even go on.

More pictures soon...

cordycord

03-24-2009, 10:13 PM

Here are three pictures showing the side pods on the frame. The finish on the bodywork is fine, and it all shipped nearly damage free. There is one tiny part near the engine bay, but it's not a problem as it will be covered with a rubber gasket anyway.

The bodywork seems to be woven + matte material, which is quite rigid. I'm used to two plies of woven only for the motorcycle industry, which could potentially drop the weight of the bodywork by 20kg overall. Still, woven/matte has its benefits.

It's a little difficult with black bodywork, but also notice the transition around the wheel area to the main body. MEV uses a unique two-tone section, which makes it seem like there is a hard transition. On the contrary, the body flows nicely in this area, and should prove to be fairly aerodynamic.

cordycord

03-24-2009, 10:26 PM

Here are the 'parts bin' pictures. They include the bodywork, still in bubble wrap, the seat, electronics, suspension, hubs, front alloy uprights, rear MEV uprights, etceteras. I coaxed Stuart to send me the aluminum body GAZ shocks--same specs but aluminum body. They're go nicely with the car, as they're silver body with black springs.

Again, nothing is powder coated or plated because of the engine tweaking that needs to be done. Then we'll decide on a color--black or chrome-look powdercoat. Any suggestions?

The gas tank holds 8 gallons, and since our engine is a bit thirstier than the 1.8 model, we've already decided to make a larger one. I was happily surprised at the MEV seats. They're like oversized kart seats, and will stay for now.

dwmtl1000s

03-24-2009, 11:11 PM

Damn do I wish those were taken in my driveway!

Lucky,
Dave

Gage

03-25-2009, 07:18 AM

I like the HUGE toy box. It looks like a fun project. Congradulations.

Chadillac

03-25-2009, 08:15 AM

cordycord

03-25-2009, 08:41 AM

Looks exciting!

If you're looking up to Miatas, just imagine what a F-350 is going to look like on the road. The bumper on our 4Runner is about level with my face in the SL-R. You don't want to get in a wreck with these cars.

I imagine that this is the case with the Atom, SL-R, Rocket, whatever. I've also heard that stop lights must be considered carefully, as you don't want to stop right next to a truck tailpipe. :)

Pagester

03-25-2009, 10:01 AM

very cool - can't wait to see this one on the road! I'll be following along with my build manual :)

FIAROADSTER

03-25-2009, 04:29 PM

Speaking of build manuals, can you comment on the sonic's? When is the open garage party?

golftdibrad

03-25-2009, 04:58 PM

Cool Deal man, now get cracking!

cordycord

03-25-2009, 07:36 PM

I'll get crackin' on the car...next week. I'm off on a little vacation tomorrow so the Sonic will have to wait. I took more pictures today of the peripheral parts--some of them--and will post when I get a chance. I hope to post a silly amount of pictures so you guys can see each step.

cordycord

03-25-2009, 07:43 PM

Speaking of build manuals, can you comment on the sonic's? When is the open garage party?

The Sonic manual very simply assumes that you have some knowledge of hand tools. It will tell you each step, but not go into painful detail as to how about getting it done. Anyone who gravitates towards the garage on the weekend shouldn't have a problem. There are also enough pictures so that you can get an idea of where the wiring should be located, the relation of each part to the other, etc.

The manual gets much more specific in relation to the wiring. You will have the layout, colors, pinouts, etceteras for the build, assuming you use a Focus donor. I'm going to follow the advice Nigel noted on his thread and start at the front (or back) of the car and move back (or forward). When the connections are broken down and tackled one by one, they should be do-able.

cheapracer

03-25-2009, 09:26 PM

I'm off on a little vacation tomorrow p.

Dropping in for a beer?

Pagester

03-25-2009, 11:15 PM

The Sonic manual very simply assumes that you have some knowledge of hand tools. It will tell you each step, but not go into painful detail as to how about getting it done. Anyone who gravitates towards the garage on the weekend shouldn't have a problem. There are also enough pictures so that you can get

The manual gets much more specific in relation to the wiring. You will have the layout, colors, pinouts, etceteras for the build, assuming you use a Focus donor.

I agree - it covers everything well enough that if you pay attention, you should be fine.

Nigel

03-29-2009, 02:15 PM

Brings back so many memories :D

Will try and get some updates on my site soon :thumb2:

Good luck and Enjoy :D

cordycord

03-31-2009, 04:00 PM

As promised, here are some straggler pictures. These are individual pictures of the parts that came with the kit. Funny thing, I designed the oval lights that come with the kit. ;) They were designed as motorcycle fairing turn signals about 10 years ago--I wish I'd patented them, as hundreds of thousands have been sold--most copies of my design. Oh well.

Remember too that I requested raw parts--no powder coating.

cordycord

03-31-2009, 04:02 PM

Here's a fun part--I had some extra mirrors laying around the shop. Which do you think would look best on the Sonic?

Also shown is the stock headlight with H4 (dual filament hi/lo) bulb next to a new version that MEV is considering using. The new version doesn't have hi/lo capabilities, yet.

Chadillac

03-31-2009, 04:28 PM

I really like the GSX-R mirrors. They look good on the SL-R.

Is that just the chassis wiring? Looks like it's all labeled and shouldn't be too bad to install.

cheapracer

04-01-2009, 05:02 AM

I hate tiny small headlights.

cheapracer

04-01-2009, 05:06 AM

Hows the welding close up?

B-T

04-01-2009, 06:07 AM

I really like the GSX-R mirrors. They look good on the SL-R.

Is that just the chassis wiring? Looks like it's all labeled and shouldn't be too bad to install.

That is similar to the wiring in my Ginetta. Lots of taped on labels. It makes it easy to identify the circuits.
I like the GSX-R mirrors, but my choice of those shown would be the second ones down on the left.
Small mirrors are just about useless.
:)
BT

cordycord

04-02-2009, 04:26 PM

Yep, we've managed to turn a kit car build into a kit car project! :)

The DISI motor and especially the transmission just barely fit into the engine bay of the Sonic. The real culprit is the 6speed transmission. When positioned, the tranny webbing sits on the left frame and interferes with the suspension pickups. Not good. Our solution is to ditch the transmission in favor of a MTX-75 5-speed transmission. These Duratec motors are fairly good at swaps, as the DISI motor has been swapped directly onto the Miata transmission, for example. The hole pattern is the same. All motor mounts will need to be re-fabricated. We're also going to drop the motor as much as possible, and push the lump up as far as possible. We'll end up with a shorter wheelbase and possibly need to re-fabricate the rear a-arms. We'll also need to find a place for the intercooler, and make a new engine cover. But that's the difference between a project and a Lego set. This all could have been avoided by using a Focus motor, but the lure of extreme horsepower is too strong. :)

cheapracer

04-02-2009, 11:00 PM

Do you sleep man?

Hope you are going to wrap those cooling pipes with some rollbar foam etc, hate to see a light side impact causing you to end up with boiling water on you.

cordycord

04-02-2009, 11:30 PM

Do you sleep man?

Hope you are going to wrap those cooling pipes with some rollbar foam etc, hate to see a light side impact causing you to end up with boiling water on you.

Sleep? If I had gone with a Focus donor I'd already be done!

As for wrapping the tubing, Nah--it will only add to the excitement. If I'm in a big enough shunt to crack those pipes, a little hot water will probably be down on my list of problems. :)

As for your previous question regarding welds--I can tell two people welded the frame--one welder and one apprentice. :) All are functional, but one set is pristine while the other welder needs some time under the hat. Hey, I want to be as honest as possible on this site--I'd hate for anyone to feel like the information I've posted is anything but honest.

cordycord

04-02-2009, 11:46 PM

One of the benefits of knowing friends with cool machines is that you can have them make cool stuff. I took off the crank, idler & water pump pulleys and had them machined from billet aluminum and then hard anodized. Not bad. They should fit any of the Duratec motors, although the crank timing may be different between vehicles.

The crank pulley is most important. The next step will be to hog it out and get the weight down. I think a 30% weight reduction will be easy. After that, a 20% smaller crank pulley will be made that should really add free horsepower to the engine without sacrificing anything really.

Let's see, lighter pulleys, flywheel, clutch, and even transmission. Will it ever end?

cheapracer

04-03-2009, 03:27 AM

Same welder, He started Friday and finished Monday (happy on Friday, weekend starting :kiss: - hangover on Monday :barf3:)!

kurfgator

04-06-2009, 10:44 PM

Nice build thread so far. I'll be following it closely as I get the funds together to buy a Sonic7. Funny enough, I will hopefully be selling my Speed 6 (Titanium 06 Sport) to get the rest of the money for the kit and a used mini-truck as a DD. I love the Speed 6 but it's too expensive for me to use as a DD anymore.

I can say that the DISI motor is awesome as long as your patient and know about turbo cars. It pulls my 3600 lb (yep, the speed 6 is a fat pig) just fine even with the drag of the AWD. It only gets better too. My old set-up: Cobb SRI, custom 3" inlet pipe, silicone boost tubes, ETS 3.25" TMIC, optimized throttle body, ported intake with VCTS removed, 16v ignition, NGK 1 step colder plugs, Balance Shaft Delete (with Cosworth oil pan baffle), 2.5" catless single exit turbo back was a decent screamer. I still have the Coswroth baffle/windage tray with trap door and a custom bored throttle body (+3mm) that I'd be willing to part with if you want them.

I recommend conservatively modding the DISI, but definitely modding it. It seems very choked up from the factory and in all honesty my car ran 10x better when it was mildly hoped up. I would go with mostly optimizing the intake/exhaust paths.

Couple questions/info for you.

1. Why not stick with the 6 speed? If there is only those small interference issues why not modify the frame and transmission instead of the a-arms? Given the fact that you are making the transmission pull around 2000 less pounds removing a small bit of support webbing is not going to cause a huge issue. Modifying the frame with a slight notch shouldn't be a problem either as long as it doesn't go more than half way through.

2. Whats your plan for the IC?

3. I'm assuming you have already but if not, I highly recommend checking out CP-E.com. Flat out, best developers of parts for the DISI. Protegegarage.com and streetunit.com are great sources for parts too. Mazdapseedforums.org is probably your best source for info.

4. For your intake set-up (I'm assuming the stock airbox is a goner) I would recommend the Cobb SRI or at least the MAF housing that it comes with mounted however you want. The MAFs on these cars are very picky and that seems to the best cure. I would say go with an oil less filter too. I think my Cobb filter killed my last MAF which strangely enough caused my ECU to tell me I had a bad crank position sensor.

5. If you don't want to spend big bucks on one of the ATP Garretts, you might want to look into the optimized stock turbos from Protege Garage or PTP Performance. The delayed powerband would probably be a big help to you. The torque delivery of the DISI is going to be absolutely disgusting and maybe even dangerous in that light of a car.

Can't wait to see this build progress!

cordycord

04-07-2009, 12:33 PM

Kurf,

Thanks for the great post! There's lots of interesting information in there, and I"ll try my best to reply.

1) 6 speed trans--by going to the 5speed, we'll be much closer to the design specs intended for the vehicle. Just as important, we'll be shaving LOTS of weight. We could fit the 6 speed, but really we're losing weight without losing any functionality from the trans. We're even going to a Miata clutch and flywheel, as we'll have 2k pounds less to drag around.

2) IC will be relocated. We'll be making a custom engine cover, and that will be one of the considerations.

3) CP-e.com & intake--Thanks for the information. Going oilless air filter is definitely a good choice. We had problems with our 4wd Speed3 when we put on an aftermarket air intake, and I think the filter had something to do with it.

4) More power--The FIRST item on the agenda is to have a running, working car! The engine is just one piece of the puzzle. With the lightening we're doing with pulleys and clutch, with the improved breathing from intake/exhaust, and with a mild remap our engine should easily top 300hp. We then need to make sure that the rest of the car is up to the job. Setting up the suspension to handle the performance will go hand in hand with the build.

Thanks again for your post and your interest!

kurfgator

04-07-2009, 03:34 PM

That makes sense with the transmission. I guess the trade off for the 6th gear really isn't worth it. Might want to check on the final drive ratios though. Depending on what car the MTX come out off it might have even shorter gears then the DISI's box and those are almost too short for my car. If they are taller then you scored.

Yeah, you should be close to or over 300. I definitely recommend going to a 1 step colder plug even with the mild mods.

There's one more thing I forgot to ask. Does that new crank pulley make use of the factory balancer or is that just the CPS ring from the stock unit transferred over? I would highly recommend sticking with the factory balancer on the engine. Heard plenty of horror stories with lightweight crank pulleys on the 2.3. I would under drive the accessory pulleys instead to get the same effect. No reduction in crank mass but the power gain from the that reduction is almost negligible anyway. The flywheel weight reduction is going to hide it anyway. Stock FW is crap and HEAVY!

If you want to cut rotating mass without much headache (or risking engine damage) while helping reliability a little, pull the balance shafts. It cuts about 6-10 pounds of parasitic mass that also happens to be acting like a blender in your oil pan. Also, increases capacity up to about 7 qts for better cooling. The only thing you have to do is stick an appropriate sized freeze plug in the old oil feed and put a metal tab over it that bolts to the old shaft assembly mounts (back-up in-case the plug slips for any reason). To make it real nice, cut a piece of stainless into a windage tray while you have the pan dropped anyway. There are already 6 mounting points with bolts for the two small windage trays Mazda puts on both sides of the shafts so it's a breeze. Then you also eliminate the parasitic drag of oil being thrown around the lower crankcase constantly.

The other advantage that most people forget when doing that mod is the shafts are fed constant oil pressure so with it blocked off your oiling system holds pressure under heavy loads and this keeps the piston squirters going. They run a check valve to keep oil directed to critical parts in the event of a pressure drop so the better oil pressure stability from doing the delete helps your piston cooling. Plus, total cost should be less than $40.

I know you want to get a running engine first but the balance shaft delete I really consider preventative maintenance. BTW, it won't cause crank wobble issues that can apparently happen with lightweight pulleys because it is not directly attached to the crank and spins on different center lines. My bad for the long posts. I've talked almost nothing but Speed vehicles for the past couple years so it just kind of spills out.

cordycord

04-07-2009, 06:35 PM

Thanks again for the reply. I will definitely consider dropping the balancers.

We're using the stock pulley balancer while reducing the size of the main pulley. If we "underdrove" all the other pulleys, it would actually mean making them larger to slow down them down. I'll probably end up offering 2-3 different types of pulleys myself--a stock-sized pulley that's been lightened, a 20% underdriven pulley, and possibly a larger pulley as well. Yep, there are some applications (supercharger) that require larger pulleys for the engine to best function.

I have not heard about the balancer problems with the DISI, but will read up on it. I 100% agree with you regarding the clutch & flywheel. They tried to build in a vibration damping unit into the design, and it just plain sucks. However, it's not a big deal to fix, and the rest of the motor is a gem, IMO.

kurfgator

04-07-2009, 07:47 PM

If the balancer is there then it should be just fine. Nice work! The dual mass FW is a joke. My SVT Focus I drove a few years ago had one too and it was no better then. It's supposed to eliminate shudder thought the drivetrain but with the torque of the DISI it has a tough life. Looking forward to the next update.

Chadillac

04-08-2009, 12:33 PM

Not sure if you guys heard this, but it seems that COBB, one of the largest supporters for the Mazdaspeed has just pulled out. Quite the soap opera.

http://forums.cobbtuning.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53017

cheapracer

04-13-2009, 10:49 AM

cordycord

04-14-2009, 09:43 PM

I would hesitate to pull the balance shafts out of a large 4 going into a steel and fibreglass lightweight street car. Fine when you got a vibe absorbing metal, carpet, body deadner etc. 1500kg car around it but I fear things will start to fall off in short time in the Sonic besides the possible discomfort of the extra engine vibes themselves.

Anyway, just a thought, maybe you really do need 300hp in 700kgs rather than only 290.

Actually I was thinking about you today Cord as I flattened my standard '05 Mazda 6 2.3 auto, it's fast enough for most with just 150hp pushing 1500 kgs.

I tend to agree, although I'm willing to listen to anyone's ideas. I did talk to Tony from AWR Racing about it today--he said that a Formula Atlantic buddy did the same to his race engine, and the result was that the vibrations actually broke the rollbar weld off the frame!

This car will be built up with some bolt-on motor mods, mainly in the arena of efficiency, not horsepower. The next step will be the suspension--all that power is worthless in an ill-handling car. Should the car need extra ponies after everything is dialed in, then we'll revisit our other options.

cheapracer

04-15-2009, 04:26 AM

--he said that a Formula Atlantic buddy did the same to his race engine, and the result was that the vibrations actually broke the rollbar weld off the frame!
.

For the engine the lower alternator bracket usually breaks first and on the body the fibreglass cracks around any mounting point besides some welds as you mentioned depending an the dampning of the frequencies in that area. You haunt the bike world, the buzzy bikes crack around the ABS mount points for the same reason if they aren't rubber isolated there as I'm sure you have seen.

Nigel

04-20-2009, 01:16 PM

.......maybe you really do need 300hp in 700kgs rather than only 290.

Just to let you know Cord, when i took my Sonic for its SVA i had it accurately weighed as part of the test. The car was wet 3/4 tank of fuel 576.2 kgs I like to call it 580. :thumb2:

With all your light weight components and alloy engine, even taking account of your heaver gearbox, I think you be around 525kgs and with 300BHP it will just be awesome. :D

cordycord

04-20-2009, 03:02 PM

Thanks for the information Nigel! After all is said & done, I'll probably be at 600kg instead of 525kg. The all-alluminum engine is still a bear, and that doesn't include the intercooler and other items. I'm also going to beef up some areas of the car because of the extra horsepower. It will be plenty light enough. Right about now I'm thinking that it would have been nice to have started with a Focus donor...

golftdibrad

04-20-2009, 03:10 PM

Ken_Kim

04-20-2009, 05:24 PM

meh, I broke a motor mount in my donor focus today.

Dude, good to hear you're making progress. Could you document this critical part of your build?

cordycord

04-20-2009, 08:45 PM

meh, I broke a motor mount in my donor focus today.

The difference--you can order a new motor mount, whereas I need to measure & fabricate one from scratch...

Meh me, meh you!

golftdibrad

04-20-2009, 09:17 PM

Dude, good to hear you're making progress. Could you document this critical part of your build?

Sure

The difference--you can order a new motor mount, whereas I need to measure & fabricate one from scratch...

Meh me, meh you!

I'll document the failure with pics and the how and why so you can make yours good.

The failure was CLASSIC metal fatigue. The part seriously looks like it should be in one of my engineering texts.

FIAROADSTER

04-21-2009, 11:01 PM

Any chance you might be bring your car/pieces to the Knotts kit car show this weekend?

cordycord

04-22-2009, 12:23 AM

Any chance you might be bring your car/pieces to the Knotts kit car show this weekend?

I'm afraid I wouldn't do the car justice, seeing as the frame isn't painted, nothing's together, we're welding new motor mounts, etceteras. Plus, my sister's in town from Washington this weekend. Life is getting in the way...

If you make it down to San Diego county I'd be more than happy to give you the nickel tour.:thumb2:

Nigel

04-25-2009, 10:55 AM

Just thought I'd drop you a line Cord, have just come in from an afternoon of testing :D:D:D Getting ready for my Government Single Vehicle Approval SVA retest, Setup and locked out the brakes bias, changed the rear brackets etc etc etc.

Why I'm writing is to let you know what your in for, I'm starting to gain confidence in my build now, so am starting to push a little, explore the envelope etc and all i can say is that your in for some fun, even with my little 1.8 Zetec powered car is so light and well balanced, it, just so 'frisky' :spin::spin::spin:

If i can tomorrow I'll take a co-pilot with a camera :thumb2:

Your going to enjoy your car Cord :spin:

cordycord

04-25-2009, 12:07 PM

Thanks for the good news Nigel! I'm in the process of hitting vendor snags. The new motor mounts are waiting to be welded in, but the jack shaft and mount need to be installed first in order to confirm that we have the motor mounted exactly where it needs to go. FRUSTRATING!!! I'm also having issues with the quick ratio LHD steering rack, so I definitely want to see some good news and some good video from you!

Thanks again for the encouragement.

Nigel

04-26-2009, 01:29 AM

........I'm also having issues with the quick ratio LHD steering rack, so I definitely want to see some good news and some good video from you!

Thanks again for the encouragement.

The trials and tribulations of car building :)

Will try and get some decent footage today but i must watch the F1 Bahrain GP, in the mean time hears a little snip-it :D:D

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w232/NigelP21/MEV%20Sonic%207/Testing/th_Sonic7CountrysideTesting001.jpg (http://s177.photobucket.com/albums/w232/NigelP21/MEV%20Sonic%207/Testing/?action=view&current=Sonic7CountrysideTesting001.flv)

Going to have to invest in an on-board camera system with a helmet mounted mike this year before a do a track day - anyone got any suggestions/recommendations out there ???????

Nigel

Pagester

04-26-2009, 08:18 AM

check out this camera

http://www.goprocamera.com/

cordycord

04-26-2009, 09:09 AM

check out this camera

http://www.goprocamera.com/

Great Job Nigel!!! Beautiful countryside you live in.

I have a goprocamera and can recommend it without reservation. The video below was taken with one goprocamera and all of its different included mounts (suction cup, etc.):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U9uGEiX5H4

Nigel

04-26-2009, 10:10 AM

....... goprocamera and can recommend it without reservation.

Many Thanks for the info I suppose its about how much money you wish to spend.

Bottom end of the market ‘Oregon ATC3K’ £75
Middle Range ‘GoPro Motor Sport Hero’ £150
Interesting Option ‘T-eye ADR3000’ £300
Top end ‘Dogcam HQR-2 Sony Bullet Camera’ £600

Then I suppose the sky’s the limit, going to have to give this some though.

cordycord

04-26-2009, 10:13 AM

What you'll like about the GoPro--the wide angle lens is great for car videos, the included gadgets to mount the camera all over the car, the fact that it's waterproof (my friend used his while scuba diving in the BVI), the SD card format. Somehow they've managed to minimize shaking on the camera, and the usual intrusive wind noise is lessened from the waterproof shell. There's just enough noise to add to the sense of speed.

cordycord

04-29-2009, 08:00 PM

I got tired of waiting for a Mazda 3 jack-shaft and mount from the wrecking yard, and so purchased a new one. It was needed to install the half-shafts from the Mazda 3 transmission (mated to Speed3 motor) in the frame.

We've got the engine mounted in the frame where we want it. We moved it forward to help with weight bias and muffler plumbing. Because the engine is moving and we're using the drive shafts from a Mazda 3 instead of a Focus, it means:

--all new engine mounts--removeable, and mounted to fully threaded mounts built into the frame
--measure everything, again & again
--new uprights to mount to the new drive train
--other?

We're going to make the uprights from 4130 plate, reinforce, and mount Mazda 6 hubs to them. The nice thing about the Mazda 6 hub is that it mounts to the upright with four bolts, and has a 5 x 114.3 hole pattern. There are many more wheels available with this pattern, and there's no chance of overpowering the bolts.

cordycord

04-29-2009, 10:07 PM

Here are some photos from today. The motor mounts are a work of art. Notice the beautiful welds. They are supremely triangulated, damped with rubber barrels, and will be bolted onto the frame with four fully threaded welded bungs that are inset completely through the frame.

The rear upright on the left side is actually supposed to be on the right side. The right one is at the CAD designers, being reworked. However, this gives us a starting point to confirm the suspension dimensions, whether the drive shaft splines work correctly with the hub, if the drive shafts are correctly aligned, etceteras. It's a good start.

cheapracer

04-30-2009, 06:32 AM

The motor mounts are a work of art. Notice the beautiful welds. They are supremely triangulated, .

Indeed beautiful welds but there is no triangulation in the most important vertical load stress (the engine bouncing up n down) that I can see, only in the more lightly loaded fore/aft and sideways directions.

cordycord

04-30-2009, 09:37 AM

Indeed beautiful welds but there is no triangulation in the most important vertical load stress (the engine bouncing up n down) that I can see, only in the more lightly loaded fore/aft and sideways directions.

Somehow I knew I'd hear from you....:eyecrazy:

You can't see from the picture that the mount is three dimensional. The right mount (which is only tack welded), will also carry the load nicely. The bottom mount is really simple--two parallel barrel mounts connected by a 1.5" tube. I'll show them next time I'm at the car.

stiggymills

05-01-2009, 03:17 PM

Very nice mount Cord, even the torque you talk about wont rip that out. Rear upright is on the wrong side though. Caliper is mounted to the front of the axle. Regards Stiggy.

cordycord

05-01-2009, 10:08 PM

Very nice mount Cord, even the torque you talk about wont rip that out. Rear upright is on the wrong side though. Caliper is mounted to the front of the axle. Regards Stiggy.

Thanks Stiggy,

I mounted the uprights and then realized that I had the opposite side upright--the left upright is being committed to CAD design so that we can make it work with Mazda hubs.

cheapracer

05-03-2009, 12:29 AM

Somehow I knew I'd hear from you....:eyecrazy:

You can't see from the picture that the mount is three dimensional. .

This is a forum, look up the meaning and my glasses don't have a rose tint.

I mentioned quite clearly "that I can see", anyway hope it works out for you - looking good!

cheapracer

05-03-2009, 12:37 AM

Very nice mount Cord, even the torque you talk about wont rip that out. Regards Stiggy.

Opinion Stiggy? No Engineers report? :D

Jokes aside, looking at Nigels I hope you really start a trend away from 7's, best of luck with it at that show mentioned.

cordycord

05-08-2009, 07:17 PM

Thought you might like some pictures of the rest of the motor mounts, so here they are.

We tried to use the "guesstimate" mounts that came on the 7, but they just didn't mate up to the motor and transmission.

You'll notice that the top motor mounts are bolted not only from the top (into bungs welded into the frame), but also to the side of the frame. Barrell-type dampers are used all-around. I'm very happy how they turned out.

cordycord

05-08-2009, 07:22 PM

I purchased a steering rack from a Ford Focus (2004?), and all are not alike. While the mounting holes are correctly located, the width is not. I'm not sure if Ford has multiple widths or not.

On a similar front, the steering rack mounts were cut and re-welded to the same location as the Sierra donor rack. LSD racks are not on every street corner in England, and although it came from a Ford Sierra, it had different rack mount dimensions.

Edit--I contacted Stuart regarding the steering mount, and he said that the mount is made with extra room to allow the customer to center the wheel to the driver. I'm hoping he mentions this in future build manuals...:)

cordycord

05-08-2009, 07:27 PM

Tony Woodford has installed the Suzuki Hayabusa into the Japan-only Beat. The damn thing looks completely different when it's not up on a work table--it's TINY!

If you've ever seen the videos with the Hayabusa-powered Smart cars--this one has got to be lighter than those. Apparently there are only about 200 of these cars outside of Japan.

The mid/rear engined car uses the 'Busa motor connected by chain to a Qaife differential. The Qaife also includes a reverse lockout gear--you can theoretically shift through all six gears while going backwards.

Nigel

05-09-2009, 01:20 AM

cordycord

05-09-2009, 09:46 AM

Love the engine mounts :thumb2: (Real work of art)

Something you may want to consider if your going to have to reposition the steering column mounts is the columns height, although its all about personnel preference I have to drive the car with the column adjusted fully up (I'm 6'2" and 16 Stone). No problem other than whats the point of fitting an adjustable column but only being able to drive it in the maximum up position. The cross member around the column brackets needs raising by about 1/2 to 3/4 inch possibly a winter mod for me. :)

Way ahead of you Nigel. :) I visited the car yesterday with a test seat, and that's when we found out about the steering column. My column is fixed, so we'll button everything up at the same time (seat, steering column, pedals) so that it works for my 6' 1", 225lb frame. I bought a RaceTech "Saker" lay down seat that I hoped would place me lower in the car, but the wings on the seat don't allow for prime fitment. I think I'm going to switch to RaceTech "Cobra" seats. These have no wings, no back head rest support, but will fit nice and low in the cabin. My only concern is no rear head support--do you think it's needed?

Nigel

05-09-2009, 12:26 PM

........ My only concern is no rear head support--do you think it's needed?

Thats a very personal decision. From a style issue i prefer, but it depends what you are planning regarding a style hoop and belt mounts and if separate head supports could be build in ?

Considering the power your planning I'd would consider incorporating head support.

cordycord

05-12-2009, 10:57 PM

Here are some pics of the Sonic 7 front uprights. I ordered the hubs undrilled, as I'm going to install 5 x 114.3 studs. These match the Mazda bolt pattern (back wheels), and have a wider variety of wheels available.

The bolt and standoff in the back is for wing (fender) mounts. The uprights take Wilwood calipers, and are based on the Ford Cortina. They're not aluminum, but they're nice and light, and won't flex easily.

golftdibrad

05-13-2009, 07:18 AM

cheapracer

05-13-2009, 07:34 AM

What type of place to you go to get hubs drilled or redrilled? I want to run 4X100 and while it is a ways off.... the thought has crossed my mind.

Any competent engineering shop with a segmented degree turnstyle on their press drill can do it besides the fancier ones with CNC drills.

If your starting with a choice then don't go for 4 x 100.

5 x 114.3 gives you a massive choice of wheel styles and sizes and 5 stud also gives a stiffer wheel, stiffer wheel = better handling

http://www.carlsalter.com/wheel_fitments.html

golftdibrad

05-13-2009, 08:14 AM

Any competent engineering shop with a segmented degree turnstyle on their press drill can do it besides the fancier ones with CNC drills.

If your starting with a choice then don't go for 4 x 100.

5 x 114.3 gives you a massive choice of wheel styles and sizes and 5 stud also gives a stiffer wheel, stiffer wheel = better handling

http://www.carlsalter.com/wheel_fitments.html

meh, 4X100 is less rotational mass, there are tons more lightweight wheel choices. Not to mention I already got like 4 sets of 4X100 wheels.

cordycord

05-13-2009, 09:12 AM

Any machine shop can do it properly as Cheap mentioned. There's a turret assembly for the drill press that locates where the stud holes are to be drilled. You can also go "ghetto" and locate the holes with the brake rotor and use your own drill press, as long it's hub-center located. Hand tools are not an option.

cheapracer

05-14-2009, 11:08 AM

You can also go "ghetto" and locate the holes with the brake rotor and use your own drill press, as long it's hub-center located. Hand tools are not an option.

Helps if you can at least put it into a lathe and score a circle first, at least that eliminates 1 direction you can stuff it up on.

Use many steps ups to keep the holes central, start small - maybe 3mm then 6 mm then 10mm then final and press the studs in on their splines with about 1/2mm interference, don't hit them in with a hammer. If you haven't got too much interference (depends on how wobbly your drill press is) you can use the wheel nuts to pull them in.

So if you have a 13mm diameter spline and a wobbly home drill press then a 12mm drill may give you a 12.5mm hole which will be close to being right - test first on similar but scrap steel, bloody hard to make a hole smaller once you have stuffed it up and consider it junked if its cast steel or cast iron which many hubs are.

cheapracer

05-14-2009, 11:09 AM

Not to mention I already got like 4 sets of 4X100 wheels.

thats the hardest one to argue against. :)

cordycord

06-06-2009, 10:44 PM

I just bought the cheapest bar & plate intercooler on Ebay that I thought would fit my application. $76 for 11"x12"x3" of fin area, 18" total end to end. The OEM fin area is 12x12x2".

The new intercooler will need to be modified anyway, as the inlets aren't pointing the right way--none that I could find were, short of having a custom intercooler built. The OEM cooler is supposed to be inefficient, and is mounted on TOP of the engine....dumb. The new system should work fine, as I'm relocating the intercooler horizontally over the transmission, and plan to put an air intake over it to push cool air through the fins. The cooler inlet and outlet will connect directly from the turbo to the intake, so no lag. Or that's the plan.

cordycord

06-13-2009, 08:29 PM

Although I've got a "blog" spot for this car, it's actually easier to post here on Exocars. Thanks Karlo! I realize that I haven't put up much in the past month, so I'll try to make up for it with plenty of photos, updates, etceteras.

With the motor mounts finished, attention turned to the steering and suspension setup. Steering first. A quick mating of the Ford Focus steering rack showed that the Sonic bracket was not going to fit. So it was cut off and rewelded into its correct position. You may recall that the Merkur steering rack also did not fit on the frame mounts--LSD racks apparently aren't the mirror image of their British cousins.

EDIT--re-welded due to MEV mfg. error.

cordycord

06-13-2009, 08:48 PM

We're test-fitting everything we can prior to powdercoating, which is a good thing. :)

As mentioned in Nigel's blog, we found some anomalies with our measurements at the back of the car. The rear suspension, which is non-adjustable for caster, sits toe out by 1/8" on the driver's side and 1/8" toe in on the passenger side. The engine bay is also 1/4" out of square, which may have some bearing on the suspension numbers.

We're building our own rear uprights from 4130 plate, and will include caster adjustments at the bottom pickup points, which should allow us to tune out the issues.

Also look closely at the rear shock--it's canted backwards by 1". MEV says that this is done on purpose to compensate for the torque of the engine. Does anyone else have this on their car? Fran?

EDIT--problems caused in manufacturing by MEV at extra charge, but the excuses were free.

cordycord

06-14-2009, 10:18 PM

Here's a picture of my $79 ebay intercooler next to the oem unit. Yep, it's smaller. However, it's also thicker and won't be spending its time on top of a hot engine.

It will be as if the intercooler were flipped like a page from on top of the engine. It will hover over the transmission, and (hopefully) will have a ducted air scoop pushing cool, flowing air from outside the engine bay.

So how do you think the Sonic would look with Lamborghini-style air intakes?

cordycord

07-02-2009, 07:54 PM

Okay, just a couple of more weeks and we'll be in the starting gate! :)

The angle iron brackets for the seat runners have been welded in place, leaving only an 1/8" height penalty. I used universal MOMO runners, sourced from Ebay. The holes line up perfectly with the MEV seats, but only if the runners are installed upside down. In other words, I push the runner bar down in order to slide back & forth--not a problem.

cordycord

07-02-2009, 08:05 PM

The quandary is that I felt that the 8 gallon gas tank was too small, but everything in the market I could find was too big or the wrong shape. I went for too big. I bought a 15 gallon gas tank from Summit and stuffed it behind the seat. We'll make a further firewall to separate it from the occupants in the event of a crash. Eight gallons was nice and small, but the Mazda will be a bit thirstier than the Ford Ecotec engine, especially with a heavy right foot. We're still deciding whether to shift it toward the passenger side, and possibly taking a slice out of it to reduce the size and weight of the tank. Summit also recommends strapping the tank down for safety--something we'll be doing. Also good--it's pre-filled with tank foam.

cordycord

07-02-2009, 08:16 PM

I ran riv-nuts for a few of the mount holes instead of tapping the walls of the tubing--more threads to hold the bolt. For the custom radiator, we'll be using weld-nuts, which are not prone to loosening with vibration.

The riv-nuts can be installed with a temporary tool that looks like a nut with no internal thread and ridges on one side of the nut. The riv-nut is inserted into a tight-fitting hole, the tool is put over it (held in place with a wrench) and then a hex bolt tightens the riv-nut up against the tube. The ridges rest against the riv-nut and keep it from spinning in the hole.

The weld-nut is shown prior to installation.

cordycord

07-02-2009, 08:25 PM

I decided I wanted the parking brake out of the way. I found a Mazda 3 park brake (Ebay) and mounted it to the left of the driver's seat. It's out of the way, and the brake cable will run straight back to the left rear brake. Clean.

The steering bracket was removed and adjusted so that the rake is about 10 degrees more angled than MEV's original design. Okay, I've got a thing about being hand-cuffed when steering. Maybe I should have been a trucker...

cordycord

07-02-2009, 08:29 PM

Here they are--back from the powder coater. Tony at AWR did such a nice job that I decided that I wanted them to be a different color than the frame so that his work stood out. They will.

Karlo

07-02-2009, 09:38 PM

You have been busy with lots of progress!!!!

How do you do that when you are on vacation??

cordycord

07-02-2009, 09:44 PM

You have been busy with lots of progress!!!!

How do you do that when you are on vacation??

Did I mention that I'm going to Laguna Seca tomorrow for the MotoGP this weekend? I hope to get a lot done on the car while I'm gone....;)

Nigel

07-03-2009, 02:38 PM

Looking very good when do you think you will start assy for real ?

cordycord

07-03-2009, 06:51 PM

We haven't been able to go to powder coat until all of the custom brackets were finished. They should be finished in the next week. After that, actual ASSEMBLY and testing begins. I still expect to be slower than a standard kit as we need to figure out the electrics, intercooler, and some other bodywork issues in order to get air to the engine.

edit--development time and schedules are completely different than assembly. It's not to say that you get some monkey wrenches thrown into your assembly, but I went into this build knowing that it wasn't going to be the normal build. Hopefully the extra effort will pay off--the blue/white Sonic has certainly set the bar high.

cheapracer

07-19-2009, 03:13 AM

maybe something for you to see here...

cordycord

07-19-2009, 08:14 AM

Thanks Cheap. I see a massive intercooler and a bigger turbo than what's found on my DISI motor. That's aftermarket, right? It also looks like they are partitioning the engine bay with that horizontal sheet to keep the exhaust from heating up the air intake parts. I'm planning something similar on my car, with the partition separating one side of engine bay (intake & intercooler) with the exhaust. The frame is finally supposed to go to powdercoating next week, and then most of the standard build begins. We'll see how "standard" the rest of the build turns out...:)

cordycord

07-21-2009, 04:51 PM

We took another step forward with the Sonic today. Stuart sent the reworked lower rear a-arms so that toe can be adjusted. He also sent a new rear upright made of 4130 plate. This thing is made to take a bolt-on Mazda hub, which will make it extremely strong (4130), modular, and won't have any issues with welding deformation. The suspension mounting tabs need to be welded to the uprights, and we're ready for powder coating.

The other items are pretty cool. Stuart used the same 4130 plate to make a larger front brake mount. Instead of the Dynalite rotors, we can now run the six-piston Wilwood stuff with vaned and slotted 12.2" rotors. With a motor putting out over twice the horsepower rated for the standard Sonic, the weight penalty is worth the peace of mind. Our Wilwood rep said we'd have over 1.5" of extra brake pad with the new setup.

This bracket may be interesting for anyone running the aftermarket Cortina hub who also want to upgrade their brake system. In other words, lots and lots of Super7's out there.

EDIT--After consultation, we've decided to adapt our own lower a-arm setup. The coarse M12 thread welded to a tube is not the optimal setup.

Nigel

07-22-2009, 11:47 AM

Glad to see you got your bits from Stuart, I shall look forward to seeing your pictures of the assy process after plastic coating. :thumb2:

cordycord

07-23-2009, 06:08 PM

Things are happening fast and furious! I opted to relocate the battery to the passenger footwell for weight and packaging reasons. Everything is a surprisingly tight fit. For example, care must be taken with the radiator routing.

A proper gas pedal was found and mounted. It looks like it's mounted forward of the clutch & brake pedals, but that's misleading because they're not yet assembled to the pistons.

The larger & thicker radiator is in place, but mount brackets still need to be made. A fan will sit on the back side, and along with internal shrouding should keep the engine nice and cool.

The gas tank is also getting buttoned in place. Straps will also secure it.

iflyfast1

07-24-2009, 07:30 AM

A proper gas pedal was found and mounted. It looks like it's mounted forward of the clutch & brake pedals, but that's misleading because they're not yet assembled to the pistons.

I like that gas pedal. What did you use and where did you find it? thanks

cordycord

07-27-2009, 12:07 AM

The gas pedal is a hot rod item from Lokar;

http://www.lokar.com/product-descriptions/chromesteel-spoon-throt-pedal.htm

I figured that the lever at the top gave me more options when it comes to mounting the throttle cable. Then again, I may end up using the OEM drive-by-wire sensor on the pedal. I dunno, yet.

iflyfast1

07-27-2009, 07:38 AM

The gas pedal is a hot rod item from Lokar;

http://www.lokar.com/product-descriptions/chromesteel-spoon-throt-pedal.htm

I thought that pedal looked familiar, but I just couldn't put my finger on it. Thanks for the info.

cordycord

07-27-2009, 08:26 PM

It's black instead of chrome. The pedal itself is not the exact size I want, but I want to try it out for real before tacking on a new plate.

cordycord

08-07-2009, 04:23 PM

The car is at that point where most people would open the crate for the first time. It's powder coated, all the engine mounts are correct, and MOST of the custom build is behind us.

Still on the custom check-list: rear lower a-arms (not done fiddling), radiator mounts and routing, rad fan, wiring for this direct injection drive-by-wire motor, a second firewall over the gas tank, intercooler setup, bodywork, and a few other items. Okay, maybe I'm not to the standard start yet. :)

You'll note that we decided to make our own steering mounts using monster heim joints. There is no chance of bind and the routing is direct.

The gas tank is now held down with straps as well as at the base--much safer. A light foot would get 400 miles from this tank, although that's not quite the point. :)

The new brake bracket allows the 6-piston calipers and 12" rotors. It looks nice coated.

Sharp eyes will note that we welded six threaded inserts at the front of the frame. Two will hold the upper radiator bracket, while the other four will be used to hold the sub-assembly for the front wings--some time in the future.

Jordan

08-10-2009, 09:42 PM

Damn.... Cord, looks like it's coming together real nice!!! I like the quality components and work that you're putting into it.

cordycord

08-13-2009, 10:40 PM

Seeing as space is at a premium, I dropped the bodywork on the frame to save room.

And then I dropped the frame. Always remember to get help flipping it over--not that it's heavy, just unwieldy. :)

The last pictures are of a rivet spacer. It's etched to show rivet spacing on the tool--just stretch to optimum distance and mark with a pen.

BTW, thanks Jordan. Still feel like it's going together real nice?!

Jordan

08-13-2009, 11:52 PM

ehhh, it happens. At least you've got that "first scratch" out of the way. My brother is using a similar rivet spacer for building a FFR cobra and he commented that it's a nice timesaver. Keep on chuggin', the dream will become reality soon.

cordycord

08-15-2009, 07:07 PM

Although Rosie the Riveter probably would have laughed at my efforts, the floor was actually kinda fun to install today. There was lots of assembly-type work:

--measure
--mark
--center punch
--drop of all-purpose oil
--drill (pilot and finish hole)
--set all rivets in place
--rivet

I went through exactly zero drill bits. :O I also used clamps instead of cleco's, and I didn't have any problems--riveting a flat sheet isn't beyond even my skill set.

golftdibrad

08-15-2009, 11:22 PM

I went through exactly zero drill bits. :O I also used clamps instead of cleco's, and I didn't have any problems--riveting a flat sheet isn't beyond even my skill set.

showoff. :p

looks nice!

cordycord

08-16-2009, 01:24 AM

showoff. :p

looks nice!

Okay, I just had to get a little dig in about the rivets. :) If I know that I'm not going to use the tool often, I go to Harbor Freight--even drill bits. :) Otherwise, it's pro-quality Snap-on, Klein, Matco, or even pro Sears--something with a lifetime guarantee but made so you won't need to redeem it.

Nigel

08-16-2009, 01:47 AM

Keep up the good work, now your back to the standard build, progress should be swift.

golftdibrad

08-16-2009, 04:58 PM

Okay, I just had to get a little dig in about the rivets. :) If I know that I'm not going to use the tool often, I go to Harbor Freight--even drill bits. :) Otherwise, it's pro-quality Snap-on, Klein, Matco, or even pro Sears--something with a lifetime guarantee but made so you won't need to redeem it.

word. Funny part was I had some good bits in an index and i didn't want to burn them up. :thumb2: The HF ones are not bad if you use them in a press or on a mill.

cordycord

08-20-2009, 08:34 PM

I'm starting to put things together, which takes some items off the "to do" list while putting others on that I didn't think about. For example, I installed the relocated Taylor battery box, but first decided to put down strips of rubber to reduce vibration.

cordycord

08-20-2009, 08:46 PM

I decided to tackle the fiberglass cutting with my Dremel. I had the choice between air, electric drill, Foredom or Dremel, and I thought high speed was the way to go.

The first bit was the wrong one. WAY wrong. I thought it was a universal cut, but turned out to be a tile cutting tool. It was completely uncontrollable and would suddenly vibrate wildly, creating interesting patterns in the fiberglass. :(

The second bit was a universal bit. It was completely controllable and cut at a rate of about 1.5 inches per minute. FYI, curly cue bit on the left is the good one.

Hint about fiberglass--after you're done, use cold water at first to wash hands or shower. Otherwise the 'glass (or carbon) can get into your skin and itch like crazy.

cordycord

08-20-2009, 08:51 PM

The car was just sitting there, so I had to do it. :) Unfortunately you're looking at a black Sonic7 side pod against a dark gray car. I completely overexposed the picture and upped the contrast just so you can see the difference--Ansel Adams I'm not.

Compared to the Mercedes, the Sonic looks to have foot less wheelbase, and be about four feet shorter overall.

Yes, I will be looking up at a lot of side view mirrors...

Karlo

08-20-2009, 11:19 PM

apalumbo

08-26-2009, 11:08 AM

A word of caution about cutting fiberglass - Using tools like your dremel will get damaged because the fine tiny fibers will get into the bearings and kill them. I've gone through 3 dremels like that. Vibrating tools like tile cutters and cast cutters work great! To make fine cuts, I've taken the disk/bit and broke it into any shape I needed. The disks are hard and brittle and break pretty easy.

Good tip about clean up but I would add going for a swim in a pool works great also.

cordycord

08-26-2009, 11:28 AM

cordycord

09-04-2009, 10:32 PM

My friend Pat was going to finish up my steering shaft and work on the rear uprights--until he got a kidney stone that laid him up in the hospital for two weeks. I finally decided to work on some other items this week--until I threw my back out Monday. I started feeling better today and got a couple hours in on the car.

The battery cables are now mounted to the frame with the excess cable ready to be measured and cut when the engine is installed.

I've also started work on the brake lines. I decided to run the rear brake and clutch hard lines at the top of the frame--there's fewer bends and fewer potential obstructions.

Another "challenge" are the brake/clutch reservoirs. Even the new lo-pro Wilwood units sit 3-4" too tall for the hood. Even relocated, they will need a custom tank that will need to be nearly flush with the hood in order to function, or relocate to the cabin which I'm trying to avoid.

If I'm lucky the body will be test-installed this weekend, with most of the mounting holes drilled. My back is telling me to take my time...

cordycord

09-04-2009, 10:39 PM

Almost forgot--I started to mount the rear firewall and then realized that the O.D. bend of the firewall was the same width as the frame--it ain't gonna fit.

I cut the bend off the firewall enough to fit it now, and will have Tony at AWR shear it properly when I'm down there next.

The gas tank straps have thin rubber sheet on the underside, and make for a much safer setup.

golftdibrad

09-04-2009, 11:25 PM

Its official: you are ahead of me.

I think from the get go the first derivative of your work was greater than mine :thumb2:

keep up the good work and stay safe!
-Brad

Gage

09-05-2009, 02:18 PM

Thumbs up on the pics and progress.

iflyfast1

09-05-2009, 02:35 PM

Another "challenge" are the brake/clutch reservoirs. Even the new lo-pro Wilwood units sit 3-4" too tall for the hood. Even relocated, they will need a custom tank that will need to be nearly flush with the hood in order to function, or relocate to the cabin which I'm trying to avoid.

You're making nice progress. You may want to consider using Tilton remote reservoirs to solve your clearance issues (Wilwood may make them too, not sure).

cordycord

09-05-2009, 08:06 PM

Thanks guys for your ideas and encouragement. While I have a background in "garage", I don't pretend to know everything needed to put together a proper car. That's why I get help from everyone possible. Iflyfast, the Wilwood setup comes with hardware to remotely mount the reservoirs. It may work, but I won't know until the bodywork is on.

I was only able to spend about an hour on the car today, but learned a couple of things. Not all good.

First, if you can't drill a hole at right angles, don't. I drilled four holes and thought about naming my drill bit "sneakers" because it was walkin' all over the place. But then I realized it was my fault, not the tool. I ended up drilling and tapping four holes at an 80 degree angle, hated them, and then re-drilled and tapped everything. Now I have drill bit scratches, four holes and part of a bit stuck inside my frame. Cool. If that damn bit bounces around and starts driving me crazy, I might have to foam the inside of my frame to stop the noise.

Second, sometimes it is the tool's fault. When I switched from a Harbor Freight bit to a new Craftsman, the job got much easier.

Other stuff--
--IKEA is a great place for garage accessories. A kitchen stainless spoon holder and a magnetic knife holder work nicely holding tools in my garage.
--I've started using hex flange bolts and nuts as default. Since they have flanges, they don't really need washers.
--I drilled and tapped the brake/clutch and battery cables. There's nothing wrong with pop rivets, but there's a chance I'll need to remove them during assembly.

cordycord

09-05-2009, 08:14 PM

Here's a couple of photos of the new holes drilled today. It looks good in one photo, but then you see the wayward hole I drilled prior to the correct one.

Don't tell.

I almost forgot my other bonehead move. I drilled one hole with a tub of red moly directly underneath it. The grease gleamed with shavings after. :)

Although I could have fished them out, grease with metal chips is not exactly the type of stuff you want when packing bearings. The tub has now become my official bit and tap dip tub.

golftdibrad

09-06-2009, 07:49 AM

Second, sometimes it is the tool's fault. When I switched from a Harbor Freight bit to a new Craftsman, the job got much easier.

ha, I learned that one too... I figure i had alot of trouble with the floor because I was drilling tube that is by definition almost never at a right angle.

cordycord

09-09-2009, 04:16 PM

I'm starting to fit and drill out the bodywork. I'm leaving the actual pop riveting at the bottom until after the bodywork is painted, as it would just be impossible to match the holes anyway.

The last picture shows an "extra" hole I drilled in the back. It's either a negative air outlet cooling duct, or I drilled through my own bodywork. :D

cordycord

09-13-2009, 12:30 AM

Based on a post I just saw today, it appears that the first USA Sonic7--mine--may also be the last. I have a definite opinion about this, but was going to save it until the build was complete. Maybe not now.

Nigel

09-13-2009, 01:58 AM

cordycord

09-13-2009, 02:15 AM

Interesting ! What Post ? :confused:

I think Karlo has been keeping it low profile on purpose. It is on the front page, but at the VERY bottom in the "dealers" section. It says, "If some have noticed that I am not representing or selling MEV Products anymore.

The reason: Fundamentally different customer service and the lack of confidence in the USA market.

I felt this needs a simple explanation."

Nigel

09-13-2009, 04:11 AM

I think Karlo has been keeping it low profile on purpose. It is on the front page, but at the VERY bottom in the "dealers" section. It says, "If some have noticed that I am not representing or selling MEV Products anymore.

The reason: Fundamentally different customer service and the lack of confidence in the USA market.

I felt this needs a simple explanation."

I see what you mean. :( I do know that Stuart, MEV are very busy at the moment and has handed over sales and manufacture of the Rocket to 'www.roadtrackrace.com' allowing Stuart to concentrate on new developments like the tR1ke and the Batmobile (aka Missile)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_Kkps8M-hI

anyway I wish you all the best with your build and am sure you'll be pleased with the end result. Keep in touch and if their's anything I can help with please let me know. :thumb2:

cordycord

09-13-2009, 04:18 PM

I was saving the next 2-3 posts for when the vehicle was completely done. However, given that MEV is no longer selling/servicing the US market, there's no reason not to discuss these issues. It's too long for one post, so I'll break it down to Design, Execution, Manufacturer and Bona Fides.

I don't "need" to post this information, but I feel it is somewhat my responsibility to anyone following this thread who may be interested in an MEV product, here or abroad.

Full disclosure--I am the first purchaser of the Sonic7 in the U.S., which brings with it certain risks. I also will be putting a Mazda 2.3 motor in the car. While the block is the same family as the Ecotec units found in the Focus, it is over twice the horsepower in stock form.

Design--The Sonic7 is an adaption of a car designed by Ken Okuyama--designer of the Ferrari Enzo. The original car, the ko7, can be found on this website and by simple internet search. It's a BEAUTIFUL car, well-crafted, simple...and with just the right amount of bodywork IMO. Personally, I think that MEV should tell everyone who designed the original, rather than pass it off as their design.

Stuart at MEV has done a good job adapting the ko7 design for a kit car. The parting lines, the two tone color and the open wheel design lend themselves beautifully to a kit. Further, I personally think it's a wonderful extension of the original idea of Colin Chapman and his extraordinary Lotus 7.

BODY--copy of ko7, done well. Please note--I'm talking about DESIGN here, not execution.

SUSPENSION--If you look at all the bits, you'd immediately see the Lotus 7/Haynes/McSorley/Locost background of the parts. To me, this is a good thing. The Lotus 7 cars were superb when new, and their progeny still kick ass on all but the most exotic cars around. Aside from the front uprights--which are Rally Design UK sourced parts--the design is lacking. The suspension adjusters were "garage" quality, and require the dis-assembly of the suspension for adjustment. The rear suspension does NOT allow for camber adjustment, which is a problem for me because my rear frame arrived 1/2" bent to the right--the car will be in perpetual "crab-walk" without camber adjustment.

FRAME--Again, you can see a lot of Colin Chapman in this frame. It is a classic 3-box frame, except that the engine is now at the back. It was comforting for me to see a classic frame design utilized for this car. However, the width of the cabin limits seat choices. I am waiting to find out about heat from the radiator and/or engine.

STEERING--The stock Ford Focus steering is used, and is canted around the radiator. Suffice it to say that we scrapped this design as we thought that the angle was too great and left open an opportunity for bind. Our new design has the steering rod going directly between the clutch and brake pedal--straight shot.

ELECTRICS--I have not had enough time with the MEV wiring harness to comment adequately.

FUEL--Not good. The gas tank is directly behind the driver, with no firewall between. Further, four thin aluminum tabs are all that hold the tank down. Straps should be fitted or retrofitted to any gas tank in this configuration. This is potentially lethal in an accident.

BRAKES--As far a I know, the brake setup is more than adequate for the Sonic7. The stock Ford Focus brakes are now stopping less than half the weight, so no problem. Since I've got a lot more motor, I've opted for much more brake.

More to come next with "Execution".

cordycord

09-13-2009, 11:32 PM

This thread is miles long with lots of pictures, so I'm going to try to keep it short. Good luck to me...

BODY--This design has amazing potential. The overall size and layout, other than the noted width of the cabin, are great. What is not great is the bodywork itself. In the composite heirarchy, there's vacuum-bagged autoclaved pre-preg epoxy at the top of the food chain, and "chopper gun" at the bottom. The stuff that MEV uses--mat--is one step up from chopper gun. They've managed to not only make a heavy part, but lay on a thin gel coat that allows the mat to show through. Pic included. If MEV took the time with a composites professional to learn production techniques, they could use their existing moulds to make bodywork that was not only stronger, but would weigh 40% less. Price would be little affected. I also found out a couple new problems this week. First, the "slant" of the rear section of the frame does not allow the shut lines to close properly on one side. The frame is hard against the bodywork, and would work through in no time. Second, I must have received an early engine cover, as there is a 6" x 40" gap above the firewall. Oops.
SUSPENSION--I had many problems. Overall quality, bent rear uprights, suspension bushes, all sub-par. The most telling issue was the rear shock mounts. They were welded over 1" off center, meaning the shocks would be perpetually in bind. Stuart tried to pass this off as purposeful engineering. He afterwards relented and agreed to make new uprights and lower suspension pieces--with camber adjustment--to make amends. The picture of the lower a-arm he sent back is on this thread. See the picture and decide for yourself. Stuart did manage to get me the shock setup in aluminum body instead of steel only a week before shipment.
FRAME--The following tabs needed to be cut and rewelded on the frame: steering rack, Wilwood brake/clutch bracket, steering bracket, rear shocks (changed at a-arms). The engine bay tabs were also removed, but Stuart was basically guessing at my custom engine setup, at my request.
STEERING--I purchased a steering rack from Stuart, and upgraded to the "quick rack" as well. What I got was a "NOS" (New Old Stock) rack that looked like it had been stored at the bottom of the English Channel. The quick rack portion was simply that--the plain rack included extra for me to install.
ELECTRICS--pending.
BRAKES--I'm using a custom Wilwood setup. Note that the suggested Wilwood calipers are too tall for the bodywork--floor-mounted pedals would not have had this issue.

I've been told by Karlo that MEV now has an outside contractor making their Sonic7 frames, and the Rocket is now being made and marketed through another company. Although not exactly a ringing endorsement of their work, it may bode well for future purchasers of these kits.

The included pictures show the fiberglass quality, the 'glass gap, the MEV gas tank weld, a good weld on a Summit gas tank, and the height issue with the brake master cylinders reservoirs.

Nigel

09-14-2009, 01:53 PM

Hi Cord,

Well that’s some post ! :run:

I have to confess that I’m not really sure what I should say or if I should say anything at all, as its very much your personal experience. And although I’ve had my own ups and downs i.e. my style hope / role bar as an example I’ve always without question been able to rely on MEV for support should I run into any difficulty.

It was probably you statement of “given that MEV is no longer selling/servicing the US market” that concerned me the most and lead me earlier today to phone Stuart and enquire as to what was going on ? :(

I don’t wish to take sides or for that matter get to heavily involved but I would like to inform you and any other US MEV customer, (I understand their are 2 Sonics and 2 Rockets in the US), that regardless of the fact that Stuart and Karlo have decided to part company from a business perspective, Stuart has assured me he will continue to fully support, wherever possible, any MEV customer with there build. :thumb2:

MEV have decided to pull out of the US market as they currently are and wish to remain a small innovative company specialising in the creation and development of products, eventually licensing out full scale manufacture and sales of its products to other companies i.e. ‘www.roadtrackrace.com’

The steep increase in demand of the Rocket over the last 24 months combined with the success of the Sonic over the last 12 months the development of the Atomic, tR1ke and now the Missile have resulted in an enormous increased workload, especially that of crating up and exporting kits abroad.

Therefore MEV have decided to take stock of where they are, and are conscious, not to expand to quickly and jeopardise there good reputation. While MEV welcome enquires from all over the world they have decided to focus there attention on there home and European markets first, but do not rule out there return to the US market in the future. :clap:

I say again that I’m reluctant to pass comment on your post however, you like me purchased a kit that was not fully developed and productionised, in my case the company’s demonstrator had not even passed SVA and been licensed to go on the public hi way when I started my build. It was inevitable that issues would arise and resultant fixes be required, and so long as MEV would aid and support me I was willing to take the burden of these issues in order to achieve my goal of being the first Customer in the world to have a Sonic 7 on the road. :coolnana:

While with hindsight its easy so say well this or that should have been done, what I am pleased to see is that many problems that I faced, have now been resolved and solutions incorporated into the currently sold kit. (i.e. rear arm toe adjusters, something that both you and I had modified / incorporated post delivery for free by MEV).

On the four pictured issues 1. I used as MEV suggest in there build guide a single remote reservoir salvaged from the Ford Focus, 2. Looks to me you’ve cut the bulkhead short and positioned it to low, 3. Can’t fault you on the welding MEV tank isn’t pretty but it is functional (out of curiousity how much was the Summit gas tank ?) and 4. Don’t know what happened there with the fibreglass quality doesn’t look good to me, but I thought you were going to paint the body ?

I said that I wouldn’t go off on rant, and I must remember that this is your thread, and it is a place for you to air your views, so I’m going to stop there. ('rant' I’m beginning to sound like ‘cheapracer’ now, no I don’t mean that ‘cheapracer’ but I know he will appreciate what a complex and difficult task it is to design, develop, manufacture, sale and market a kit car, in order to make a living)

I just hope, and know that in the end, if you manage to get just half the joy and pleasure from the car that I have, then the frustrations and disappointments you have obviously experienced during the build so far will diminish into insignificance as the smile on your face grows. :D

I look forward to seeing pictures of you driving the car. :king:

Nigel - (A fellow MEV Sonic 7 builder/owner)

(PS:- If I can help in any way, please feel free to get in touch)

cordycord

09-14-2009, 07:29 PM

Thanks for your post Nigel. My idea is not to misrepresent, but simply list what has happened with my build. Your input is valid, and I'm happy to let anyone who reads this make their own judgment.

Stuart has also sent me a personal email that I would either share on this thread with his permission, or he can reply as well.

Regarding Karlo, MEV and the US market--that's really not my concern or conflict, except in regards to support. Without rehashing every detail, my car has real issues with quality control that cannot be fixed from 5500 miles away.

I don't think that this is a case of problems from a "car built on Monday", and my example would be Stuart not immediately taking responsibility for the incorrect shock mounts. When he did finally relent (after I told him about the other issues) I specifically asked for lower a-arms with heim joints (first choice) or a 14mm adjuster like the type used up front. Stuart chose to use a 12mm hex bolt (coarse thread) welded to a pipe, along with a note saying that he doesn't warranty its use.

Based on your conversation with Stuart, it sounds like he's treading water with all of his new projects. As an end user, it's really not my concern what he's busy doing, whether he gets along with his US rep, or if he had a great time at the last car meet--I want value for my money, and a product that arrives as advertised. I can fix the car, but that's really not what I want to do with my time and money.

Please consider this as my point of view, and not argumentative of your comments. And thanks again for your continued offer of assistance!

cordycord

09-14-2009, 07:40 PM

Almost forgot. The 15 gallon Summit fuel cell is foam-filled and includes a sending unit for US$230. Too big for my taste, but...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RCI-2161A/

As for the bulkhead, you may be right but it was not shown in detail in the install manual. Same with the brake reservoirs. Both are not a big issue, but...

The fiberglass is maddening! High quality parts can be pulled from STUART'S CURRENT MOULDS for pennies more than what he's making now. Isn't England the "land of F1"?! :awais: I see potential, but...

golftdibrad

09-14-2009, 08:20 PM

I'd first like to thank cord for sharing his experiences. I think keeping an open and honest civil conversation is important and that is how it has been handled so far.

With out going into the issues with my kit, that I will do in my build thread, I think that we just may have some cultural differences in expectations being part of the cause.

England is very heavy with kit cars, there are alot of them. lots of builders. the inspection process seems to be well understood. I know more about it than my own state! It is also not that big. Issues are alot easier to deal with when a day trip separates a face to face talk vs 5k miles and 6 time zones. Even in the US we do not have that luxury.

Second is the old adage that you get what you pay for. I went into this with the full knowledge that I was a bit of a guinea pig and there will be some fitment issues. Its clearly a budget kit and it shows. Now, that is not a bad thing IMHO. The price point of the kit allowed me to realize a dream that would have taken a number of more years if it was just a few thousand dollars more. MEV is also one of the first manufactures to offer a MR kit using a FWD chassis and its very affordable.

I think that cord and I probably feel the same way to different degrees: disappointed to varying degrees but not entirely unhappy. At the same time I expected some of these issues.

I'll close with this thought. I'm still happy. I'll be happier when it gets finished. I'll have an awesome car when i'm done that costs alot less than a westfield or a caterham or an atom or even the SLR. I dont think that spending and extra ten grand would save that much time. Discussing all these issues in an open and constructive manner will better inform potential buyers as to what they are getting into and hopefully lead to more happy customers for both MEV and all the alternative kits in the future.

I'll be happy to be part of the US chapter of MOG :D
-Brad

cordycord

09-14-2009, 09:44 PM

Brad, I see that you get it! I am venting a bit because I not only wasn't planning on doing the RE-work on my car, on a broader scale the Sonic7 is like the genius kid who gets average grades--the gifted athlete who spends all his time playing Nintendo.

Potential buyers of these cars deserve to see all perspectives (not just mine), and if Stuart changes, improves, simplifies his offerings, or otherwise comes out with a better product because of my bitching, I think everyone is better off--including Stuart.

I'm frustrated because I come from a design and manufacturing background. I have designed or collaborated on designs of over 1,000 parts, including race parts found on current national championship motorcycles. I have seven utility patents, two more pending, and recently sold my half of the truck suspension company I co-founded, ReadyLift Suspension Inc.

I now build parts using carbon fiber, cnc-machined aluminum, extrusions (see my ramps at www.ReadyRamp.com), injection moulds, and LOTS of welded tube parts.

My point is that I feel qualified to comment on the design and manufacturing aspects of the 7. I'm also comfortable pointing out my own bonehead moves, and will whenever they happen. :)

kennyrayandersen

09-15-2009, 12:40 AM

I guess I personally find it a little disappointing because I really liked the atomic, but it appears as these are more concept vehicles than sorted out production kits. So, it would be difficult, I think, to order one based on these kinds of issues and the other logistical issues that naturally exist between one side of the pond and the other. And then you start thinking about what I will have to change to configure to a US version. Hmmm. The engine’s on the ‘wrong’ side, which means the engine would have to be turned around and mounted on the other side of the chassis, exhaust would be different etc.

The problem with a lot of UK kits, and darn-it they have a LOT of nice ones and we really don’t, is that they are just different enough that it make them a bit of a pain (and thus the American customer a bit of a pain) to try and bring to the US market and make them work here (for the life of me I can’t figure out why they don’t start with a world product like a Honda drive train which would instantly open their market to… everywhere) including the whole LH/RH deal and the fact that there are different criteria for choosing which donor to start with and then there is the whole shipping and distance thing. Frustrating on both sides really; we look envyingly at their kits, and they see all those potential customers…

I certainly think it can work, and I see some 7 stuff starting to make inroads now which I find encouraging, but I think to make it work; the problems have to be well sorted before the transatlantic journey begins. I also think it would bode well for US customers that are considering buying a UK-based car to see that there are a number of satisfied UK customers. This particular kit was so ‘new’ that there was really no history to draw on – UK or USA. I’d say that this really increases the risk factor, no? Right now I’m looking for something minimalist and performance orientated. It will probably be a seven, though I’m lurking here because I haven’t nailed it down or ruled too much out so far. If I do get something from the UK, I would hope that it would have already established a decent track record.

golftdibrad

09-15-2009, 08:13 AM

The engine’s on the ‘wrong’ side, which means the engine would have to be turned around and mounted on the other side of the chassis, exhaust would be different etc.

No, the engine is fine where it is. The exhaust/intake is different sides on the 1.6 to 1.8 to 2.0 zetec motors but that is the same as Europe we just dont have a 1.6 or 1.8. The focus IS a world car.... more frustrating that things are wrong...

Nigel

09-15-2009, 01:59 PM

It’s so refreshing to have a constructive debate with like minded people on what is a complex and highly emotive subject on a international open web forum. I only wish we all lived a little closer and could, with beer in hand, while away a summers evening putting the world to rites, or at least the US/UK kit car industries.

To summarize my views on the various issues contained in the posts since my last, I offer the following views in bullet point form:-

‘Karlo, MEV and the US market--that's really not my concern or conflict, except in regards to support’ - (with the continuing support issue assured by MEV I hope no problem)

‘my car has real issues with quality control that cannot be fixed from 5500 miles away‘. - (I feel truly concerned for you and do hope you get it all resolved)

‘I want value for my money, and a product that arrives as advertised‘. - (couldn’t agree more, its what we should all expect)

‘As for the bulkhead, you may be right but it was not shown in detail in the install manual’ - (Install manual, build guide ! don't get me started, it’s a pet hate of mine and although I consider it personally very poor, I embarrassed to say its average when compared to other kit car manufactures here in the UK)

‘just may have some cultural differences in expectations being part of the cause’ - (very true and noticeable especially the upfront investment in tooling that is apparent in US Kits)

‘England is very heavy with kit cars, there are alot of them. lots of builders. the inspection process seems to be well understood’ - (except for a few company’s, its still very much viewed as a cottage industry, with the exception of how stringent the government bodies treat it)

‘Issues are alot easier to deal with when a day trip separates a face to face talk vs 5k miles and 6 time zones’ - (correct, although I’ve only visited MEV’s factory three times I must have over 500 photo’s of their demonstrator Sonic, which certainly helped me put mine together)

‘The price point of the kit allowed me to realize a dream that would have taken a number of more years if it was just a few thousand dollars more. MEV is also one of the first manufactures to offer a MR kit using a FWD chassis and its very affordable.’ - (its sometimes too easy to put off realizing a dream on the grounds of expense, but MEV‘s pricing puts that dream firmly within reach)

‘Discussing all these issues in an open and constructive manner will better inform potential buyers as to what they are getting into and hopefully lead to more happy customers for both MEV and all the alternative kits in the future’ - (continues to remind me of the quality of this forum and the expertise and passion of the people who participate in it)

Potential buyers of these cars deserve to see all perspectives (not just mine), and if Stuart changes, improves, simplifies his offerings, or otherwise comes out with a better product because of my bitching, I think everyone is better off--including Stuart’ - (agree hole heartedly, but I don’t consider it as bitching, but more constructive observation)

‘I really liked the atomic, but it appears as these are more concept vehicles than sorted out production kits‘. - (I too like the Atomic but would agree, you may just want to wait a bit)

‘the Sonic7 is like the genius kid who gets average grades--the gifted athlete who spends all his time playing Nintendo’ - (Cord you’re a genius, :coolnana: this I just had to include and I’m going to put it forward for MOG quote of the month if you don't abject. We all see the enormous potential of what lies before us, but feel it is almost spoilt by such minor issues that could so easily be resolved and although this doesn’t help you, I’m sure such issues have been resolved, and appropriate modifications incorporated for future customers by now, as i don't believe Stuart is one to let the grass grow under his feet)

I going to leave it there and look forward to both yours and Brads future build updates as the light inevitably grows brighter at the end of the tunnel for you both.

Nigel

kennyrayandersen

09-15-2009, 04:48 PM

No, the engine is fine where it is. The exhaust/intake is different sides on the 1.6 to 1.8 to 2.0 zetec motors but that is the same as Europe we just dont have a 1.6 or 1.8. The focus IS a world car.... more frustrating that things are wrong...

Sorry I wasn't clear, I was referring to the Atomic with that comment -- it's a BEC. Not quite sure how they mounted it on the LH of the vehicle unless they turned the engine around, as normally the drive is on the LHS of most Japanese sport bikes (though I'd have to confirm for the R1 -- maybe its on the RH side?).

cordycord

09-15-2009, 07:24 PM

Nigel, feel free to reproduce anything I write on this thread--thank you for the compliment. I'd be happy to have a beer with you, and hope to take a ride in your Sonic7 one day. Of course I'll repay the favor. :)

I've talked about design, execution, my bona fides, and will also talk about manufacturing next. I hope to shed some light not only on the MEV build, but my thoughts on the other manufacturers and the industry in general.

golftdibrad

09-15-2009, 10:01 PM

Sorry I wasn't clear, I was referring to the Atomic with that comment -- it's a BEC. Not quite sure how they mounted it on the LH of the vehicle unless they turned the engine around, as normally the drive is on the LHS of most Japanese sport bikes (though I'd have to confirm for the R1 -- maybe its on the RH side?).

Oh, ok. I did some BECs in FSAE but am by no means and expert and didnt know that is what you were referring to. Party on dude!

I only wish we all lived a little closer and could, with beer in hand, while away a summers evening putting the world to rites, or at least the US/UK kit car industries.

good post Nigel. My travels with work will probably take me to England one day, and I'd be happy to have a beer with you :D

cordycord

09-15-2009, 10:11 PM

This post deals with manufacturers in general, and frankly occurred to me during the course of the build. They aren't necessarily directly related to MEV, as some issues are pointed at the industry in general.

Let's face it, if we all had unlimited time and an unlimited budget, we wouldn't be buying someone else's design--it would be our own! That's the kind of person who builds a kit. They want to OWN their car by building it. They (we) don't necessarily want what everybody else has got.

But we're not all made of money. We buy from MEV, RCR, VStorm, Palatov, Factory Five, Superformance and dozens of others for the following reasons:

a) We believe that they have a PROVEN design. We shouldn't have to worry about a massive part failure, a steering rack that will turn all the way left and "most" of the way right, a suspension better suited to a medieval ox-cart, or any other failure of DESIGN. edit* These are fictitious examples...

b) With dedicated manufacturing should come economy of scale and repeatable quality. The manufacturer has spent the money on the moulds, the jigs, the TESTING, the government processes, and should have distilled the many possible BAD ideas into a few GOOD ones. When sold to a bunch of people, it shouldn't be as expensive and time-consuming as if we scratch-built.

c) Manufacturers who stand behind their product. Kit cars are a strange industry. Not only does 10 years seem to be ancient for a kit car company, but the intrepid customer who is brave enough to build a kit car often is expected to clean up the shoddy work of the maker.

d) BANG for your buck. I'm a bargain shopper, and the thought of hyper-performance on a Civic budget is enticing. That said, I'll buy the most expensive thing in the store if it represents the best bargain. But where does the benchmark lie for quality? The market will decide that to an extent. While these cars are inexpensive, $15k in my neighborhood will still get me a pretty nice used Porsche. edit* If you're spending $15k on a kit car, how does it compare?

I would like to see the following from all kit makers:

I) A published, extensive Bill Of Materials prior to sale. Guys, get over yourselves if you think that you have special parts that other companies don't. edit *If you actually DO have a special part, SHOW IT OFF in the BOM!!!

II) Clear, concise build manuals. These should also be available online to prospective purchasers so they know exactly what they are expected to do. Again, don't be afraid of giving information to the customer or your competition.

III) A product we can believe in. We are literally putting our lives in the hands of car designs that have probably not been adequately tested. What safety factor parameters are built into the suspension? The frame? Who utilizes FEA (finite element analysis) to check their work prior to building a part? And then checks it in real-world testing? Are we to expect manufacturer's with "Cliff's Notes" build manuals also give similar weight to safety? Was there such a rush to get a new model out that it is reflected in the sparse build manual AND the safety of the car?

IV) Quality--see everything above. To me, quality means safety, performance, and an engineered product that I can be proud to drive. The alternative can be found all over--those hideous cars that at some manufacturer thought would be a good idea to build, driving around with faded paint by oddball drivers. You know, kit car owners like us. :)

I've said my peace regarding MEV. I will continue with the build, and will continue posting on Exocars the good, the bad and the ugly.

stiggymills

09-16-2009, 07:32 AM

cordycord

09-16-2009, 01:49 PM

The Sonic7 was designed based on the 115bhp Focus.
The chassis are now made by the firm that have made Ginettas for the last 20years. The moulds and jigs have been tweaked and we make one Sonic7 per week. We are too busy to entertain USA orders at the moment. We have no desire to expand or conquer the world.
We now include adjustable rear camber, a new rack and new alloy uprights and hubs.
We have a group of young lads building a Sonic7 with no experience as seen in our news letter. Their college lecturers are more than happy with the product
All my U.K customers are my friends and we have a good time together.
The build to which this thread refers to concerns me.
Huge tyres, massive rotors, 6 pot calipers and 400bhp with out any evidence of an engineers report could well end in tears.
Up grading the brakes without any data or experience with the standard items is not the correct approach. Putting in what amounts to 800bhp per ton is done at the customers discretion but clearly I cannot condone these potentially seriously dangerous modifications.
Anyone interested in puchasing the rights to manufacture the Sonic7 in the states should contact me and anyone wishing to purchase a Rocket should contact www.roadtrackrace.com

Stuart, it sounds like you're learning from your mistakes! :thumb2: I'm also chuckling a little bit that you're concerned about my car, and yet sold it to me knowing the engine I intended to install.

The Mazda 2.3 has 265hp stock. When I take off the parasitic drag (power steering, a/c compressor, etc.) and add a more open intake and exhaust, I fully expect the horsepower to be around 300hp. I don't intend to modify the engine beyond that. I'll be using 17x9 in the back instead of 17x7 all around. Most importantly, I'll be improving the design. I also don't consider a brake upgrade to be a liability.

I'll let the viewers decide--the "fix" from Stuart for the tweaked rear frame is shown below. M12 hex bolts will NOT be used on my car for safety reasons, and I hope Stuart doesn't use them for the 115hp Focus kits. The other picture shows the parts that Stuart made for me, based on my drawings, from 4130 plate steel.

Here is the basic question--would you be happy to open the package from MEV and find those uprights, along with a note disclaiming responsibility?

My design tweaks, while not perfect, will get the Sonic on the road. They've been made in consultation with Tony Woodford of AWR Racing and Pat Soffe, who was head of R&D at Eibach USA for 10 years.

I may have already exceeded the cost of an RCR Superlite kit, when considering the initial cost and then the rework of the the Sonic7. Oh, it will be right and perfect when I'm done with it, but I'm starting to wonder if I was penny smart and pound foolish. Yes, I'm venting again...I've earned it.

cordycord

09-17-2009, 06:09 PM

You guys might have to squint a little to see this one...

The Sonic7 is clearly styled after the ko7 by Ken Okuyama. How about Ken's work? If you've got a little imagination, take a look at a kit car that my dad built in the early 70's...

Am I crazy?

golftdibrad

09-17-2009, 06:12 PM

I'd buy that it has alot of the same lines even if the proportions are off.

cordycord

09-21-2009, 11:42 AM

I've got three calipers, but the longest only measured to 4". I went to good old Harbor Freight and bought a Central Tools 6" set of calipers, because you can never have enough tools. :)

I was surprised when I saw a NEW feature--FRACTIONS!!!!

This is the coolest extra feature! I hate fractions, and this little puppy "does the math" for me!

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=97675

Not bad for $20.00 :thumb2:

golftdibrad

09-21-2009, 12:05 PM

dude that is sweet.

Gage

09-22-2009, 08:33 AM

Your resourcefulness and determination to get things done right are an inspiration to guys like me who have never built a car. I'm cheering you on to the finish.

cordycord

09-22-2009, 07:23 PM

Thanks for the encouragement guys! This is my first car too, but it's definitely NOT my last. I've already got some ideas...:)

The car is ready for some major work:

--drop in engine
--connect radiator and water lines
--connect up the steering

If I'm lucky it will all happen in the next week.

WATER--hooking up the new radiator includes making sure that it doesn't interfere with the steering (note the cutaway at the side of the radiator), making a driver and passenger "S" shaped connectors and reducers, and physically putting the radiator and fan in place with custom locator pins at the bottom and a custom bracket at top. If you remember, we've already welded in threaded bosses for the radiator bracket into the frame. The pictures are a little "messy", but you can see how the pipes will connect up. Last, we're also going to put a bead on all the water pipes to keep the rubber in place.

cordycord

09-22-2009, 08:11 PM

I'm happier with the way the new steering routes between the brake and clutch pedals. It's a straight shot, with much less chance of bind.

One thing that concerned me was setting up the proper steering wheel attitude. While taking my handy sawz-all to the key column, I decided to take off (by hand) a couple of "safety latches". I don't know if they're meant to allow the column to collapse in an accident, or if this is what Ford does with an adjustable column when it's used in a car that doesn't include that feature. Either way, it's now just a little work to set the wheel at just the right depth.

I also set up the "new" steering rack in the new mounting tabs in order to check the radiator and rack mounting tolerances. There plenty of room. Note that the end of the rack--shown without the ball-hinge extensions, is located at nearly the same plane as the lower a-arm hinge. This, and other key measures prevent bump-steer.

The Borgeson mount will connect the Ford column to the rack via a 4130 seamless tube. The tube will be turned down to fit in the mount, and then will be welded in place. The other end will be cut to length and machined to accept Ford column assembly.

Although I have the OEM column fascia (complete with key hole), I may clean up the column a bit more and put something around it--polished aluminum tube, tube with suede cover, carbon fiber cover, other?

The steering wheel adapter is a Sparco unit, bought on Ebay.

cordycord

09-25-2009, 09:07 PM

It looks like I may be doing some suspension tweaking as well. I did a front end suspension install after installing the the poly & bushings to make sure everything fits properly. It does, with a little tweaking.

One reason I like heim joints (rose joints, rod end bearings, spherical bearings) is that they are very strong, precise, adjustable, and they probably pay for themselves in reduced (manufacturer) production time. You can see in the picture below that the a-arm mounting tube is slightly tweaked, which would be a non-issue with heim joints.

Tony had a whole box of AWR Mazda 3 nickel plated bushings, so even though I had a couple hours into cleaning and de-burring the MEV units, I simply swapped them out for AWR finished parts.

We're still formulating an attack plan for the rear suspension...

cordycord

09-25-2009, 09:17 PM

Here are a pictures of a Honda Beat convertible. Supposedly there are only a handful of these cars in the U.S. This one is special because it's hiding a Suzuki GSX1300R Hayabusa motor (180hp stock) in the back, connected to a Quaife differential with reverse. :awais:

If you look closely, you can see the crinkle-finished airbox being surrounded by the folded top. The air comes via the working side air intake in front of the rear wheel.

cordycord

09-28-2009, 05:27 PM

Sparco had their annual warehouse sale this past Saturday, so I decided to check it out. I got there at 8:30 for the 9:00am opening, and was about 70th in line. Seats are difficult with the Sonic7, as the total width of the cabin is fairly narrow, so the seats need to be as well. Um, I'm NOT narrow so seat choice is important.

While I do have the MEV units, I wanted something more comfortable. I also haven't been a big fan of the mounting tabs--probably fine if you're 170lbs, not if you're heavier.

I bought two sets--Sparco Steel for $100 each (usually $289), and a fiberglass shell seat that actually fits, and only cost $300 each, or about 50% off. Bottom line--whichever seat set I choose, two more sets will be available shortly. :D

Gage

09-28-2009, 07:05 PM

Well, I'm jealous. I wish to heck I could try out a bunch of seats and pick the one I fit best in. Where is the warehouse?

cordycord

09-28-2009, 11:51 PM

Well, I'm jealous. I wish to heck I could try out a bunch of seats and pick the one I fit best in. Where is the warehouse?

THAT's the problem--Sparco doesn't allow you to come down and sit in their seats! If your local race shop doesn't carry their seats (yeah, right), then the you'd better hope that your buddy has a Sparco in his race car. Some of the most popular styles, such as the EVO, seem to be made for teenagers. :thumbdown2:

The two styles I got are both comfortable and supportive. The Steel even adjusts the back, but seems to weigh twice that of the fiberglass unit. I'm no longer worried about weight in the Sonic, so whichever fits best will go in the car.

B-T

09-29-2009, 06:15 PM

I like the look of the adjustable one better also. I would definitely go with that seat and sell the fiberglass ones to pay for them! Nice deal.
:)
BT

cordycord

10-08-2009, 11:02 AM

The radiator was fitted yesterday with two pins at the bottom and a robust bracket at the top. Both are rubber-cushioned, and grab enough of the radiator so we shouldn't run into issues in the future. Water routing lines are being worked on next.

The engine also went in the frame--for the third time--in order to work on the exhaust, wiring, rear suspension, water lines and the new placement for the intercooler. Phew!! We'll still need to fit the air intake, as well as partition the air so the intercooler and intake get the cold air they need.

cordycord

10-30-2009, 10:06 PM

Don't remember if I talked about how "handcuffed" I was by the steering wheel. I ground down the stock Focus, hoping for more room. It didn't work, and ended up taking the steering stalk down to the core. In retrospect, it would have made sense to start from scratch from the beginning. :run:

Just to back up, the stock steering bracket came welded incorrectly. It was removed, a new bracket at a different angle was made and welded. now it sits on the car, unused. Oh well.

The new steering rack is a fairly straight shot, adjustable, strong, and adjustable up/down and fore/aft.

cordycord

10-30-2009, 10:22 PM

Here are a couple of suspension pictures. The front rotors are overkill, especially with the 6 pot Wilwood calipers, but I'll never complain about having too much brake. The hole spacing is 5 x 4.5, it looks like I'll be able to run zero backspacing, and the I.D. of the wheel can be as small as 13.5".

Also included is the rear lower a-arm. The adjustable portion has been replaced with an M12 heim (12,000lb thrust load rated), and the threaded bung portion was cut and re-welded. We'll see how it works before going further.

The shock mount will be moved so that the shock is mounted vertically and has more travel--pictures to follow.

cordycord

10-30-2009, 10:34 PM

I'm off to SEMA on Monday--woohoo!! Until then, here's a picture of the engine--cleaned up and with the valve cover powder coated.

The serpentine belt will be a nice tidy affair--crank, alternator, water pump and idler pulley. The alternator will be moved from aft of the engine to the front, helping weight bias. The alternator is shown in the picture in the "before" position.

As usual, lots of sideways work...we'll get there eventually.

fuoriserie

11-19-2009, 04:10 AM

cordycord

11-22-2009, 07:34 PM

I'm back from a week in Puerto Vallarta! It's time to catch up with work, and start working on the Sonic again.

The picture of these headlights was actually taken by me at the manufacturer's office in Taiwan. As far as I know, they are not yet available from anyone in the States. The manufacturer also said that they are working on a hi-lo version of the light, so it would act as a high beam and low beam. I'll probably be visiting them in the next couple of months, so we'll see if they've added any U.S. distribution.

I'll post here if I find anyone who is carrying them.

cordycord

11-25-2009, 01:32 AM

I may be able to work on the car a couple of hours tomorrow, and hope to get some updated shots. Until then, here are some assorted pictures from the SEMA show. These include:

Enkei RPF rim (light), Pagani Zonda inner workings, my product as ATV ramp (won runner up best product), T-Rex, and suspension shots.

cordycord

11-25-2009, 01:40 AM

How cool is this helmet, complete with "ride fast, take chances" artwork applied with magic marker?

Rat cafe racer bike created (I think) from a Honda XR650 or DR dirt bike.

More Pagani nonsense.

Sano S2000 air box

cordycord

11-25-2009, 01:45 AM

Trophy Truck upper a-arm weld-o-rama

Cayman body kit--the jury is out on its beauty or function

Real GT40, #15? In Ford's booth

Rhys Millen's mid-engine Hyundai drift car

Rat Rod represent'n

golftdibrad

11-25-2009, 07:30 AM

Rhys Millen's mid-engine Hyundai drift car

is that the Hartley v8? sick...just sick.

edit: the zonda has a very high bling factor.

cordycord

11-25-2009, 08:25 AM

Everything on that Zonda has a function--it's pure supercar.

golftdibrad

11-25-2009, 08:32 AM

Everything on that Zonda has a function--it's pure supercar.

(price*complexity)/usefullness. very complex not very useful....but very cool.

BTW was that realy the hartley v8 in that hundi?

cordycord

11-25-2009, 06:45 PM

(price*complexity)/usefullness. very complex not very useful....but very cool.

BTW was that realy the hartley v8 in that hundi?

I've got NO idea. To be honest, I don't even know what a Hartley motor is. Person? Configuration? I think it the propoganda said that it put out 550hp, which ain't too shabby.

cordycord

11-25-2009, 06:56 PM

Everything worth doing is worth doing twice, right? Well it seems that my MEV-caused slowdowns aren't nearly as bad as Cord-caused slowdowns. The Speed3 simply isn't a Chevy small block, so the electric R&D is slow and painful. And expensive. I talked at SEMA with the AEM guys, and they said that it can't be done without changing the direct injection for a fuel rail, OR spending $15k on a custom Motec box. We'll see.

While I was off gallavanting at SEMA and in Puerto Vallarta, Tony and John at AWR machined out new aluminum rotor carriers, moved forward on the rear suspension, and boxed in the radiator, started on the exhaust AND set up the drive belt!

Notice:

--Alternator moved from back to front of engine, making for a nice, tidy serpentine belt.
--Hard anodized crank pulley and pump pulley (custom made).
--beautifully machined aluminum brake caliper mount
--Custom radiator fan shroud
--aluminum front bulkhead (NICE)
--aluminum boxing around radiator (not finished)