Quest for World's Quickest Kit Car

[mkim1]

Hi all,

Happy New Year! My name is Mike, an ex-Ford engineer and a former Ariel Atom owner. I just found out about the Sonic 7, and I LOVE it. A few questions for you all since I have not heard back from Stuart Mills yet:

1. Can I fit a GM Ecotec 2.0L Turbo engine (LNF) / trans combo in the Sonic 7 engine bay? Since it is such a compact engine, I figured it should fit, but wanted to verify.

2. Is there enough room for a small intercooler in front of the radiator? If so, I'd like to run the intercooler tubing similar to the radiator tubing.

3. Do I have to use Focus donor parts, or can I use brand new parts from other cars without using any donor parts?

4. Do you have the renderings / photos of the windshield & gull-wing hardtop option yet? If not, can I use the fly screen as a windshield by not cutting it down?

5. What are the current tire sizes and what would be the largest tire size to fit under the fenders?

The reason for my questions is because I am looking to build the QUICKEST KIT CAR in the world.
I think using the Sonic 7 kit, LNF - 6-speed combo with 290 HP / 340 lb.ft. upgrade from GM, and some wide sticky tires might get me sub-3.0 sec 0-60 times and definitely beat the Atom's 2.8 sec. time if the total weight stays at around 1,000 lbs. (vs. 1,300 for Atom).

I'm willing to buy all NEW parts, so your answers and input would be greatly appreciated.

I look forward to all of your insights / comments. Thank you, and have a great day!

Mike

[Karlo]

1. Can I fit a GM Ecotec 2.0L Turbo engine (LNF) / trans combo in the Sonic 7 engine bay? Since it is such a compact engine, I figured it should fit, but wanted to verify.

Engine bay numbers is the only input as far as another type of engine: 980 mm 38" Wide x 700 mm 27" depth x 680 mm 26" Ht +-

2. Is there enough room for a small intercooler in front of the radiator? If so, I'd like to run the intercooler tubing similar to the radiator tubing.

There is room in front for an inter cooler

3. Do I have to use Focus donor parts, or can I use brand new parts from other cars without using any donor parts?

You can use any parts you would like and since your are engineer you might have an easier time refiguring the setup.

4. Do you have the renderings / photos of the windshield & gull-wing hardtop option yet? If not, can I use the fly screen as a windshield by not cutting it down?

We have only pics of the prototype windshield no eta yet for production date. see pic below

5. What are the current tire sizes and what would be the largest tire size to fit under the fenders?

Max wheel size is 17x7, tire size in pics is 205-40-17 with stock fenders

Cord is planning a similar turbo setup with the Duratec which will have factory motor mounts from MEV.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

[bolus]

why did you get rid of the Atom? :( You could of thrown a turbo on there like I did

[mkim1]

Hi Bolus,

I sold my Atom because I didn't want to wear/carry my helmet everywhere while getting a 2nd degree burn I endured on my way to 2007 Ultimate Street Car Challenge. I lost some hearing for not putting on ear plugs, and I just didn't want to swap a factory supercharger with a turbo. Luckly, I can still drive/ride it since my friend Joe ended up buying it from me. With some mods like smaller pulley and freer exhaust, he's getting close to 300 RWHP, and I'm very happy for him.

If what MEV says about Sonic7 is accurate, I can shave off 300 lbs. compared to Atom (you know how it feels like to carry a heavy passenger in an Atom) and get factory-warranty 290 HP / 340 lb.ft. upgrade (only $650 extra from normal LNF turbo) on my favorite GM engine (sorry, not a fan of high-rev'ing Honda K20). Besides, I wanna build one and say "I freaking did it myself." My goal: 2.7 sec. 0-60 mph! : )

[bolus]

well, you are going to go deaf and get sunburnt in the Sonic7 as well unless you can get that hard top :)

LNF is a great engine. I'm sure we'd have it by now in the US atom if Brammo didn't crash and burn. Hahn is working on an upgrade kit (http://www.turbosystem.com/ProjectVehicles/New_Folder/Cobalt/CobaltSS-TC%20Turbos.htm) for it too. If you end up going that way and want to up the power make sure you talk with Bill Hahn. If you didn't follow my build on the atom forum he was very helpful and did some custom parts for my turbo conversion. I got my super20G at about 315 WHP now. I built up my engine for 30 lbs of boost. I just got to grow some balls before I turn on the boost controller and meth inj and put 450 WHP down in an Atom

Good luck with your project. I hope you can fit that engine in there.

[mkim1]

Thanks, Karlo.

"Max wheel size is 17x7, tire size in pics is 205-40-17 with stock fenders"

Do you know if the stock fenders are adjustable? Since I'd like to put 245/50ZR16 (Front) & 315/35ZR17 (Rear) Sumitomo HTR Z tires (w/ only 14 psi air) on 16x7 and 17x10 wheels, unless there is 1"+ of clearance between the current tire and the fender, I need to raise it further up (while raising the vehicle by 1" at the same time). This sounds a bit extreme, but after spinning out in an Atom even at high speed WOT, I want as much contact patch with stickiest, fast-wearing summer tires as possible. : )

[mkim1]

Bolus, you are NUTS!!! You should hold the world-record for the fastest modified production car with 450 RWHP in an Atom. If you didn't beat Veyron's 2.6 sec. 0-60 mph record by now, you must need more rubber & traction at the rear wheel!

Just curious, what are your tire sizes in the Atom now?

BTW, my main reason for being interested in the Sonic7 is the hardtop & windshield. I don't even need the wipers (RainX, baby!) and without the helmet, I can always put on my hunter's ear muffs ($15 at WalMart : ).

I totally agree with you on the LNF being available at Brammo if they were still building the Atom. I'll take your advice on talking to Bill Hahn.

I understand the methanol injection route, but 30 psi of boost? If I ever get a ride in your Atom, I'm definitely putting on a heavy-absorbent Depends on me first! : )

[bolus]

I wont try any 0-60 times because I haven't upgraded the transmission or axles. I upgraded to an Exedy clutch which I'm worried might destroy the transmission if I nailed it off the line. I still have the standard wheels and tires for now. We're working on having a set of upgraded uprights and hubs made to better handle slicks. When I have those on the car I'll get some proper tires on there.

We did full throttle 2nd gear pulls when we were tuning behind the shop and at 15 lbs of boost and ~315 WHP is scares the crap out of me. So I'm going to take next season to get used to it a little before even turning on the boost controller (and getting bigger tires).

I still have 5 gallons of methanol in my garage that I haven't used yet! I get 90F AIT2 with a superbly made intercooler than sits in the hoop. I had a heat dispersant coating put on it and the temps go from 270F to 90F without methanol or water injection.

If you ever need an intercooler made let me know and I can give you some recommendations

[Karlo]

Thanks, Karlo.

"Max wheel size is 17x7, tire size in pics is 205-40-17 with stock fenders"

Do you know if the stock fenders are adjustable? Since I'd like to put 245/50ZR16 (Front) & 315/35ZR17 (Rear) Sumitomo HTR Z tires (w/ only 14 psi air) on 16x7 and 17x10 wheels, unless there is 1"+ of clearance between the current tire and the fender, I need to raise it further up (while raising the vehicle by 1" at the same time). This sounds a bit extreme, but after spinning out in an Atom even at high speed WOT, I want as much contact patch with stickiest, fast-wearing summer tires as possible. : )

From the pic in the Gallery the fenders look like they have that inch. 15 in the front and 16 in the back would assure that clearance. There will be some experimenting. Fender mod might be in order also.

[cheapracer]

2. Is there enough room for a small intercooler in front of the radiator? If so, I'd like to run the intercooler tubing similar to the radiator tubing.

I look forward to all of your insights / comments. Thank you, and have a great day!

Mike

I'm not sure if this is a test joke post or your serious.

The volume of air required to fill the loooooong tubes to the front and the intercooler will give you just about enough time to make a cup of coffee before boost comes on, or in the tech jargon, lag. It would seriously be a piece of shit to drive with this configuration. Also both the pressure over the distance and the possibility that they have to run in close proximity to the radiator water tubes may end up being hotter than when they started out :-)

Don't do it. :thumbdown2:

[bolus]

You could do it with a air to water intercooler. There are kits for that. one of these could fit in the engine compartment
http://www.frozenboost.com/product_info.php?cPath=218&products_id=219&osCsid=e71df12b9d77e5dcd19b5e1e55f978e6

Or you could get an LSJ and keep the water cooled intake manifold for the supercharger and do a turbo conversion. The problem with this route was demonstrated with the ecotec Atoms which didn't have enough space for a large enough radiator.

The other option is fashioning a scoop for the back of the Sonic7 and mount an intercooler there. A side scoop or one off to the side of the engine cover could look very cool in a mad max way. the Atom 500 (if it every gets released) is going to have side mounted intercoolers.

Another option is water injection. Crazy, but there are guys out there running just wanter injection with no intercooler. You run out of water though and BOOM!
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1024

I agree though that you dont want to try and run boost tubes up to the front and back.

Could be a fun experiment :)

[mkim1]

Cheapracer,

Hate to break it to you, but the remote charge cooling is already a tried & true technology that people pay up to $8,000 for ( www.ststurbo.com , multi-year SEMA Show winner).

I was gonna put this set-up on my 2008 Mustang and 2010 Camaro, but why do it on 3,350 lbs. - 3,750 lbs. cars when you can do it on a 1,000 lb. car? The turbo lag happens when 1) the turbo is big & heavy enough for the exhaust gas to spool it (thus many OEM's like BMW 330i or Nissan GT-R use 2 smaller diameter twin turbo's to eliminate or minimize the lag) or 2) there is a leak in the charge tubing (thus losing boost pressure). As long as the tubing is sealed correctly, the length of the tube does not affect the turbo lag.

In fact, the main benefit of remote charge cooling is the additional stage of cooling to the intercooler alone, which is the actual tubing. As the compressed hot air flows to the intercooler, the ambient air around the tubing dissipates the heat around the tubing, thus cooling the air even before it hits the intercooler. The reason why STS has a patent on this technology is because its claim of the lowest air intake temperature of any forced induction system is validated by their gauges and the dyno results using same boost levels as other competitors. Obviously, I wouldn't try to run the tubing on the same side as the rediator pipes but run it on the opposite side of the car for cooler air and better side-to-side weight balance.

If there is enough space in front of the radiator in the Sonic7, then effectively, I can have a 3-stage cooling (back-to-front tube, intercooler, & front-to-back tube) allowing for near ambient temperature for the forced air right before it enters the intake manifold. Since the rule of thumb is "the cooler the air, the more HP" and the GM upgrade kit ($650) on LNF already gets you 290 HP / 340 lb.ft. stock, this set-up should easily push it past 300 HP / 350 lb.ft. (where I'm more interested in the torque numbers).

Thanks for your concern, though! : )

[mkim1]

I like your alternative ideas, Bolus!

If there isn't enough space up front, my next alternative for air-to-air intercooler was going be behind the seats above the engine bay, but I was hoping to clear the area for rear visibility (if I can mount a rear view mirror on top of the windshield). You know how the Atom's visibility sucks in that area. : )

Now with the option of air-to-water intercooler, not only is it a cheaper option, but it might package quite nicely. Even the side-scoop idea could be cool if I can get a retro-fit side panel.

It would be very interesting to see how the hardtop option looks like. That could determine how I'm gonna get the cool air to the air filter and the intercooler. I'll probably have to cut as much vent holes in the back panel as possible so that all the hot air from the engine can escape somewhere (i.e. Atom). : )

[bolus]

You could fashion an intercooler for the top of the engine like the Lotus. Then add a scoop.

Some side scoops like this would look good too (this is off a helicopter though :) )


You could do a lot with a small intercooler though. Mine is only 9" by 12"

[cordycord]

The Mazda DISI motor (remember, duratec block) has the stock intercooler on top of the motor. Cobb Tuning and others have kits that move it for the MazdaSpeed3 to the front of the car for about $1k. Don't you love a car with a stock intercooler? :)

[cheapracer]

Cheapracer,



Thanks for your concern, though! : )


Just a fact and I don't care what the fancy ads say, pyshics can not be denied. It takes X time to fill up X volume of air space, simple. On track with corners involved it will be less than ideal.

[mkim1]

Just a fact and I don't care what the fancy ads say, pyshics can not be denied. It takes X time to fill up X volume of air space, simple. On track with corners involved it will be less than ideal.

It's not fancy ads. It's a patented system that people who know a lot more about forced induction (i.e. SEMA experts) than you and I combined agree on, as well as the U.S. patent attorneys.

I used to think like you. Shouldn't it take a lot longer for air to travel with longer tubing??? The physics cannot be denied if the entire tubing starts with VACUUM. The fact is, the entire tubing from air filter to the intake manifold is already filled with ambient air. When the compressed air is forced in from the turbo, it moves the entire "train" of air molecules that were already in the tubing, which takes a lot less than the amount of time it takes to say "lag". : )

In fact, over 90% of the lag in today's low-friction turbos still come from the amount of exhaust gas required to start the turbine turning (spooling). That's why BMW (3-series), Toyota (Supra), and Nissan (GT-R) all use sequential turbos comprised of a small turbo on 1 bank (utilizing exhaust gas from 3 cylinders) and a larger turbo on the other bank. So the smaller turbo starts producing near max. torque as low as 2,000 rpm, then the larger one starts spooling at 4,500 rpm or so, creating a flat torque "plateau" so the driver can use almost max. torque. at any rpm.

Having said that, yes, a supercharger will always get you the instant power with 0.000 lag since it's using the engine's own power rather than the exhaust gas (free energy) and thus more responsive in turns, but many skillful drivers (definitely not me) who know their engine's torque curve tend to keep the engine rpm near the peak torque range between shifts to minimize the turbo lag even more.

[mkim1]

I'm liking the Lotus setup a lot, Bolus! It's so simple and efficient that, as long as I can live with limited rear vision, I should be able to make a cutout on the engine cover and make it work.

I like your Mazda DISI w/ stock intercooler, Cord. How did you source it and how much did it cost you?

[bolus]

What PSI do those sts turbo's build? You can do a lot with $8000

[mkim1]

STS Turbo sets the default PSI at around 8-9 to be safe, with the ability to go up to 15 psi (to double stock RWHP). The only way I'd spend $8,000 on their turbo is if I get a new 2008 C6 Corvette (430 HP stock) for $39K or less. Than for $47K flat, I can have the ZR1's 0-60 performance. : )

If I go with front intercooler, I'll do the piping and install an intercooler myself. To shave every ounce possible, I might still go with your Lotus setup recommendation.

[bolus]

Are you thinking the stock turbo then keep it warrantied? At only $3500 for a new engine it is temping to just go for it and get a new one if you blow it up

[mkim1]

That's EXACTLY my thoughts, my man! Great minds think alike! : )

[cordycord]

I like your Mazda DISI w/ stock intercooler, Cord. How did you source it and how much did it cost you?

I think you're going to find that a lot of my answers, and parts, will come from one place--Dave Green. He makes at least one SEMA show car per year for Mazda, Ford, Dodge, etceteras, but seems to have an especially good relation with Mazda. He had a DISI motor (two, actually) hanging around his shop and I traded him an old 1990 Mazda Miata with a hardtop for it. The Mazda was actually supposed to be swapped for a couple of computers, but that's another story. :)

[cheapracer]

It's not fancy ads. It's a patented system that people who know a lot more about forced induction (i.e. SEMA experts) than you and I combined agree on, as well as the U.S. patent attorneys.

I used to think like you. Shouldn't it take a lot longer for air to travel with longer tubing??? The physics cannot be denied if the entire tubing starts with VACUUM. The fact is, the entire tubing from air filter to the intake manifold is already filled with ambient air. When the compressed air is forced in from the turbo, it moves the entire "train" of air molecules that were already in the tubing, which takes a lot less than the amount of time it takes to say "lag". : )

In fact, over 90% of the lag in today's low-friction turbos still come from the amount of exhaust gas required to start the turbine turning (spooling). That's why BMW (3-series), Toyota (Supra), and Nissan (GT-R) all use sequential turbos comprised of a small turbo on 1 bank (utilizing exhaust gas from 3 cylinders) and a larger turbo on the other bank. So the smaller turbo starts producing near max. torque as low as 2,000 rpm, then the larger one starts spooling at 4,500 rpm or so, creating a flat torque "plateau" so the driver can use almost max. torque. at any rpm.

Having said that, yes, a supercharger will always get you the instant power with 0.000 lag since it's using the engine's own power rather than the exhaust gas (free energy) and thus more responsive in turns, but many skillful drivers (definitely not me) who know their engine's torque curve tend to keep the engine rpm near the peak torque range between shifts to minimize the turbo lag even more.


Sorry, I really can't remember you and considering we grew up together maybe I should? (In reference to you knowing how much I know about things).

But anyway, you may like to know I investigated getting a patent on a low lag turbo bypass manifold using a reed valve over 25 years ago that I was building for race cars only to find that Yamaha beat me to it by 2 years then later released it on their 650 turbo. It's still a solid idea but not needed as much these days.

I don't care what you want to believe from fancy ads or trick salesmen, the further you put the turbo away from the exhaust valve and the larger the inlet volume (your going one way down the car then returning all the way back FFS) the more lag you will get. They use the lower heat factor as if it's an advantage but turbo's are accelerated and driven by heat energy - comprende?

I like to go around corners and in control, lag is not a good addition for that equation but horses for courses, if you want a straight line killer go for your life. You notice what most if not all the cars are at that website? Show steet cars or draggers and all V8's with lowish boost.

Patent Officers don't have to know jack other than if an idea contravines someones elses intellectual property or not. It's also fact that 99% of patented ideas are useless for anything but enjoyable reading and I did get some smiles from the link you provided, thank you :D

Anyway, good luck to you, anything different these boring days is a bonus.

[cheapracer]

I He had a DISI motor (two, actually) hanging around his shop and I traded him an old 1990 Mazda Miata with a hardtop for it. The Mazda was actually supposed to be swapped for a couple of computers, but that's another story. :)

Great deal!

[mkim1]

But anyway, you may like to know I investigated getting a patent on a low lag turbo bypass manifold using a reed valve over 25 years ago that I was building for race cars only to find that Yamaha beat me to it by 2 years then later released it on their 650 turbo. It's still a solid idea but not needed as much these days.

I don't care what you want to believe from fancy ads or trick salesmen, the further you put the turbo away from the exhaust valve and the larger the inlet volume (your going one way down the car then returning all the way back FFS) the more lag you will get. They use the lower heat factor as if it's an advantage but turbo's are accelerated and driven by heat energy - comprende?

I like to go around corners and in control, lag is not a good addition for that equation but horses for courses, if you want a straight line killer go for your life. You notice what most if not all the cars are at that website? Show steet cars or draggers and all V8's with lowish boost.

Patent Officers don't have to know jack other than if an idea contravines someones elses intellectual property or not. It's also fact that 99% of patented ideas are useless for anything but enjoyable reading and I did get some smiles from the link you provided, thank you :D


It's comical to me when someone is trying to knock down other company's efforts and successes, when he himself is trying to make a copycat of what he sees as an overpriced but otherwise a genius design, which probably started this whole website in the first place.

As a U.S. Patent inventor myself (and having patent attorneys as friends & family members), I don't pretend to know how much or little the attorneys know about engineering. There's a bit more than just checking for prior arts. In fact, a lot of these patent attorneys are engineers themselves. I'd say let's give them a little credit, even if many patents do end up making $0 profit (unlike STS guys or any other auto suppliers using patents for their benefit).

Your almost-patent is not needed nowadays because turbo manufacturers thought of people like you and made them very minimal lag in the first place. You may not like turbos. I do. You may like hairpins, I like straightaways and hairpins (in that order). BTW, turbos are not driven by heat energy, but air mass that happens to be hot. If the exhaust gas was cold, it would work just as well, actually even better. Heat is the byproduct from turbos that rotates at such a high rpm.

I applaud your efforts in making your own Ariel Atom with a parts-bin approach. As you probably figured out already, it takes a lot more than just a good concept to earn customers who will give you their hard-earned money. Two years from now, count how many orders you have with "Made in China" stigma vs. orders for MEV (Made in U.K.), RCR (Made in USA), or even STS (Made in USA). All of a sudden, these "fancy ads and trick salesmen" will seem like smart businesses.

O.K. I'm done talking about turns vs. straightaways, and turbo companies that I don't get paid to talk about. Any comments / suggestions on making Sonic7 the QUICKEST 0-60 kit car in the world would be greatly appreciated!

[mkim1]

Great trade, Cord! Do you know if Dave Green watns to sell the other DISI motor? If so, how much? : )

[cheapracer]

1/ BTW, turbos are not driven by heat energy, but air mass that happens to be hot. If the exhaust gas was cold, it would work just as well, actually even better. Heat is the byproduct from turbos that rotates at such a high rpm.

2/ Any comments / suggestions on making Sonic7 the QUICKEST 0-60 kit car in the world would be greatly appreciated!

1/ Then you can simply run your exhaust up and down the car about 3 or 4 times until the exhaust gas has cooled and your turbo will work much better, or hey, you could run the exhaust throughout your entire chassis frame to maximise the cooling effect! :thumb2:

(Wow all those stupid F1 engine developers coating the insides of their short as possible exhaust tubes with internal ceramic coatings to stop the heat escaping - what were they thinking, Idiots!!)

2/ Push it off a cliff.

And I didn't put down STS, they have a certain market that they are filling and I just don't happen to agree that that concept suits what an Exo Car is all about in many peoples minds - not that I have the right to tell people what to use their cars for and if you want to drive one in a straight line as fast as you can, go for it (in a suitable environment of course, otherwise I do have the right to tell you what to do).

Goodnight Gracy...

[cheapracer]

2/ Push it off a cliff.


Oh, in a hurricane...

[cheapracer]

when he himself is trying to make a copycat of what he sees as an overpriced but otherwise a genius design,

You can check in any website the fact that
1/ I give Atom all credit for leading the design way for the current crop of Exo Cars
2/ I quite clearly state that it's inspired by the Atom concept
3/ I have never stated anywhere to even indicate that I think the Atom is a "genius design" it certainly is a trend setter though but only in looks and to be frank I hate the darn single roll bar, its butt ugly and unsafe.

It is no more a copycat than any other car built after the Model T Ford. At 500 meters can you tell a Honda Accord apart from a Toyota Camry or a Chev Malibu?

I don't think I've actually said the Atom is overpriced (maybe) but i have certainly indicated that I don't understand why a bunch of tubes and fibreglass should cost so much and still don't, hell they even advertise what you DON'T get! :D

[mkim1]

cheap, ive come to a conclusion.

youre kind of a douche.

the way you respond, the way you post, etc--makes you kind of a douche. while i was trying to respond without blowing up to your comments, i no longer wish to hear your input. you DEFINATELY think you are car god and know everything there ever was and no other way is right.

i think i've got my gecko pretty much figured out as of this evening, so feel free to enjoy WATCHING my project come along without your help from now on

:)

good talk.

CHEAP,

I started thinking I was the only one who thought you are a douche bag, but apparently you are the resident "Know it all and Can never be Wrong" kind of a guy in this forum. No biggie. There is always one like you in each forum, so you've cemented your place in this one.

Your having to appear right at every discussion tells me you probably cannot take constructive criticism on your own project, so I shouldn't even waste my time telling you this, but if you want to make any money on your project, you might want to consider revising the following:

1. Rear facing radiator. It gets quite hot back there. Ask any Atom owner.

2. 1.6L engine w/ 105 HP. Brammo only had 2 orders (out of over 200) for their 205 HP Ecotec. 1.6L may be good enough for domestic Chinese market, but even the Chinese who can afford to pay for your car will want a lot more HP.

3. Target weight. Compared to other exocars, your design seems like the heaviest. Keep in mind that even the Atom comes in at 1,350 - 1,400 lbs.

4. Rear suspension. No matter how you try to convince others in this forum that you don't need fancy rear suspension, when it comes to plunking their money down, most of us will pay a little more for MEV or RCR models over yours. Others are just more polite and don't want to hurt your feelings.

There are dreamers who always appear to be right with no dough to show for, and there are people with dough who get what they want. It's hard to make money when you don't cater to people with dough, regardless of who's right.

If you want to reply to this, feel free to do so on your Mongrel thread since it's more appropriate on your thread. I am done wasting my time with you here and I too, "no longer wish to hear your input" on this thread. I'm sure others agree. Thanks.

[bolus]

wow, it is starting to sound like the Atomclub forum in here :)

[mkim1]

Right? : ) I thought it was a strange De Ja Vu dealing with that Brit.

[bolus]

I was looking on Car-part.com You can find some LSJ's for around $1200-1500 now. Granted they are used the Brammo demonstrator car had a 45,000 mile engine in it and did just great. You could use that extra money to buy a nice turbo Kit from Hahn.

[mkim1]

Nice!!! Do you have a link? I tried on that website and I don't know how to sort it down to year and make. The engine is already broken in already and now I really won't have to worry about blowing it up! : ) Thanks, Bolus!!!

[bolus]

it does not let me link by search. use the following:
Year: 2006
make: chevy cobalt
select part: engine
location:USA
sort by price


The next step click on the 2.0L. even though you picked cobalt, it searches for all LSJ's
2.0L (VIN P, 8th digit, opt LSJ)

I used 2006 because I know that is the exact model I have.

Here is one example:

2006
Engine
Chevy Cobalt 2.0L (VIN P,opt LSJ)-TRB,165-175,OK 36,000 C73441 $1200.12 LKQ - Crystal River USA-FL(Crystal-River) E-mail 1-800-541-3011

Dont trust the site to have perfect details. give the wrecking yard a call.

Also. If you end up going this way you can get a used ECU on there for $50-60 and I'd be happy to give you my HPtuner file to start with. It wont be perfect but at least get you pretty close.

[cordycord]

Great trade, Cord! Do you know if Dave Green watns to sell the other DISI motor? If so, how much? : )

I'll ask...

[mkim1]

Found it! Thanks! Some of them seem to include the 5-speed trans as well, so I'll definitely look into it. This route could be very easy, especially with your help on the ECU mapping file. Thanks again!

[Ken_Kim]

Hey Cheapracer,
Maybe you’ve figured out by now that this forum is for wild speculation and pseudo informed judgment. No room for physics, engineering or any of that nerd crap. That stuff isn’t cool and we don’t want it here. Besides, it just gets in the way of making the car right.
Here is what you need to do: Hire an advertising firm to sell your car. Tell them the sky’s the limit – Stock Toyota motor with 7 sequential turbos, 800-1600 whp with patented Dial-A-Boost. Total weight below 450 kg with driver (any driver; doesn’t matter). Use the frame tubing as the conduit for the intercooler. Hell, skip the intercooler and just use the frame. And small brakes. Tiny little brakes. Brakes sourced from a bicycle company. None of that pesky unsprung weight here. And you could offer helium filled tires!! Now you have negative unsprung weight. I’m a genius. I could go on like this for hours…
You owe me big-time royalties for my ideas.

[Karlo]

No room for physics, engineering or any of that nerd crap.

I pay for lots of memory on this forum to store some of that nerdy stuff ; )

I cannot understand it all but the more I stare at it, --- the more it sinks in :)

[bolus]

Every morning I pray to the Saint Turbo and somehow I get 500hp... explain that you nerds!! Divine boost! Ye with little faith doth go slow

I did google some STS dyno's and they dont lag like you would expect from running boost that far. I attached one. that's about where my super 20G turbo peaks at for torque.

ANNNNNNyway. the internet is sure serious business

[mkim1]

Ken & Bolus,

You guys are hilarious!!! : )

[Karlo]

What was the topic at Hand?? I Moved the posts.

[mkim1]

Thank you, Karlo! I appreciate you keeping the thread on topic! :clap:

[cheapracer]

For your Sonic to make a fast 0 - 60 car.

Use a Mitsubishi 4G54 2.6 Starion Turbo engine bored to 2.8 and stroked to 3.0 if you have the bucks (even the 2.6 makes great torque which you will require for launch, you just can't beat cubes). The 4G54 is also single cam for easy maintenance and reasonably light even with it's balance shaft system.

No intercooler required, use nitrous to cool the charge for short runs such as 0 - 60 or 1/4 mile. Maybe figure out a reserve air tank holding 20 psi with a soleniod that opens upon launch until the turbo catches up (requires a reed valve or other one way valve in the intake system and the tank outlet).

Run an auto with high stall (about 4000rpm should do it which should have the turbo spinning up nicely too) but if you must run a manual then gear second gear so you only need 1 change between 0 - 60 (if you can't actually do it all in 2nd). Also leave a nice heavy standard flywheel in as well.

Sit the motor up high and rearward for maximum rearward weight transfer and run solid steel bars in place of the front shocks so no energy is lost there or drag spec shocks if you don't like the solid bars.

Set the rear lower control arms up for pro-squat rather than anti squat, 0 - 60 requires maximum attack from the all important launch.

0 - 60 times are make or break depending on the launch, 80% of your effort should be applied to hook up - torque and traction which will come from cubes and weight transfer.

No need for thanks.

[mkim1]

This may be hard to believe, but I like this input. Almost word-for-word exactly what I've done on my 2008 Mustang chassis, so I'll probably implement some of your recommendations on the Sonic7. But since Sonic7 will be such a light car and I do want it to perform well on the track as well, I'll try to put 275/40ZR17 & 315/35ZR17's (similar to Zcar Mini's getting 2.6 sec. 0-60 times) with an upgraded Ecotec Turbo (LNF, my favorite GM engine) & MU3 5-spd trans. so that I can launch it with 2nd gear (same as Atom) and get to 60 mph with only 1 shift.

[Brust]

Cheapracer is technically correct regarding the remote turbo. Conventional mount turbos close to the engine rely on both exhaust volume and heat to spin the turbine. The remote mount turbos you'll note are primarily used on large volume V-8 engines and actually give a fairly low percent increase in power for a turbo'ed engine vice NA. The inherent lag is masked by the enormous torque that v8 engines produce at low RPMS, making this setup a pretty good match, with a pretty decent HP upgrade despite the unfortunate mounting location.
The only reason I'd use a twin-turbo setup, is if the exhaust paths would become too long. The longer runners release their heat and make the turbo less efficient. Flat engines like Subaru could benefit, and this is why longer engines like I6 or V8's use twins. The sheer huge volume of exhaust gases make the remote turbo semi viable on a v8 engine. The percent HP increase pales compared to a decent twin setup.

I am a mech-e and have studied thermodynamics pretty extensively. Whatever that means to anyone is fine. I've been wrong much more than I've been right.

Also, as a cultural point: the British and their colonials come across as A-holes on forums because they love to argue a point. Americans are very sensitive to having their beliefs challenged (I'm an American with a South African wife and NZ family). I wouldn't take this guy's posts as personal attacks.