New buyer questions

[Edward500]

Hi, I want to build an exo-car similar to the atom. I've looked at many different kits and think the SLR is the best option. I have a bunch of questions if anyone can answer them. I have read many posts and information about the SLR but still unsure about some aspects of the SLR. I will make some comparisons to the ariel atom because the atom seems to have set the standard for exo-cars, so please don't get offended.
I basically want this car to be rediculously fast and get loads of attention.
I currently own a supra TT which gets a decent amount of attention, so I'm hoping this would get even more.

1) My first concern is the handling and speed of this car. IF this car is given a stock K20 motor, what kind of 0-60 time would you expect. Would it be faster than most modified super car on the street? What 1/4 mile time would you expect with a stock K20? I know the ariel atom has 300HP so not sure how 220HP would be. I really want a rocket of a car.

2)How would the handling of this car compare to a car like the ariel atom? Is the frame, suspension, etc. as good quality? I've noticed nobody on the forum has commented on the handling and driving of this car, even the people who have completed the kit build.

2) Seems most are using the K20 engine, is this the best option currently for this car? IS there a better option if you want maximum HP? If I was to buy a K20 honda engine, can I later modify this same engine to get 300HP? Would a supercharger fit?

3) What is the best way to buy a K20 engine package for this car? How have you builders acquired your engine, transmission etc? What is the price for a used k20 engine package with tranny?

3) Would the shifter be on the right side of me and function just as a honda 6spd should would?

4) Will this frame be standard for this car for some years to come, or will a new frame be put on the market shortly? Just trying to decide if waiting any to purchase this would make a difference. I hate buying things and a month later a new design is out.

5) This is an opinion question, but can't judge 100% from the pictures, do you think this car will get as much attention as an ariel atom on the road?

[Fran Hall RCR]

Give myself or our Australian agent , Craig White a call or email and we can answer all of your questions...no punches pulled.

Only I can answer some of your questions, such as will the chassis design and architecture remain...

I look forward to hearing from you after the holiday weekend..

[Gage]

2) I've noticed nobody on the forum has commented on the handling and driving of this car, even the people who have completed the kit build.


I will comment more from my own perspective later but this is a quote from Aloysius here in this forum:

"This is a formal public "THANK YOU FRAN".

This is the way all cars should drive...wind in the face, wonderful engine noise, quick, positive steering and huge Gs in all directions."

http://www.exocars.net/showthread.php?t=2782&page=2

[Chadillac]

If you're looking for a K20, some have found engines here from local junk yards for really good deals. I bought mine from hmotorsonline.com. This company is very well known among the Honda fans and have very good used engines from Japan. Their engines come with a gaurantee and they leak down and pressure test all of their engines.

A supercharger will fit, and there are quite a few options for the K20. 300 hp is easily attainable with a F/I K20. The 4G63T and the SRT-4 engines would also be a very good choice if you wanted high hp.

The shifter will work just like a normal 6-speed.

My car is not driveable yet, but it does get a LOT of attention. I've taken it to a car show, and had it on a trailer a few times. EVERYBODY looks at this car.

[Gage]

5) This is an opinion question, but can't judge 100% from the pictures, do you think this car will get as much attention as an ariel atom on the road?

In my area, like most.. No one knows what the heck an Ariel Atom is. When I owned one it was like taking a walk with a hot naked woman. You wouldn't believe all the stares. People would turn around on roads and follow us. People walking on the side walk would turn and do a double take. Etc.

People stare at exotic sports cars like Ferrari, Porche, etc., but they KNOW what those are. Big deal, another rich guy showing off is trophy.

These cars (Exocars like the SL-R) get more, much more attention in my opinion, because they are such an enigma.

[Steve Jarvis]

FYI I was at a Dyno with my Cobra yesterday and there was an SRT4 that makes 420whp on a Mustang dyno (this would be more like 470 on a Dynojet).

This was on pump gas with water/meth injection and 30psi on a reasonably sized turbo.

The engine had a stock short block, but the transmission was built.

This would be crazy in a SLR. :)

Later, Steve

[Edward500]

I was thinking about avoiding turbos. The reason is my last 2 cars were turbo and I didn't want to deal with any turbo lag. I want much power from the start, don't want the higher RPM torque power band of a turbo.

Maybe this would be a non-issue on a lite car?

Super charger would be fine as power band isn't effected as a turbo.

[Steve Jarvis]

The powerband is definitely effected by a supercharger. You lose a ton of power driving the blower. :)

Trust me, I have a Vortech supercharged 2,580lb. Cobra and a SP63 powered Supra.

Now if we could just get that LS2 to fit and find a manual transaxle with a limited slip that could candle the torque. :)

Later, Steve

[Fran Hall RCR]

Transverse V8 from the Grand Prix or Impala SS...even has a form of paddle/steering wheel shift...although with all that torque lots of shifting is not necessary...

My wife has the GPV8 as a daily ...torque steers like Ba&tard but its 5.5secs 0-60....

[Conquest351]

I was kinda thinking the Impala SS engine, but it'd have to be manual and there's not an option for that. I think I'll stick with the SRT4 engine of the turbocharged Ecotec from the new Cobalt SS. As far as turbo lag, if you size the turbo correctly, you don't have to worry about that. Big turbo lag comes from a turbo that is not meant for the street or is sized waaaay too big on the exducer (exhaust) side. Another way of going about that is a compound turbo setup. Smaller turbo feeding into a larger main turbo. The smaller turbo spools up very quickly and once the big turbo comes on, the wastegate from the smaller turbo dumps all it can into the larger turbo. The larger turbo takes the boost generated from the smaller turbo, compounds it with the boost it's making and then sends that into the engine. It's different from a regular twin turbo setup as each turbo isn't it's own system. Also, the turbos don't have to work so hard. Say each turbo is producing 1 bar of pressure, well at the manifold you now have 2 bar of pressure because the larger turbo takes the 1 bar from the smaller turbo and adds it to the 1 bar it's producing and voila! Anyway, I want to try that on my SL-R once I buy one. LOL I think it'll be lots of fun. There's a guy in Austin who did that setup on a 300ZX and it's insanely fast. ABSOLUTELY NO TURBO LAG AT ALL!!

Laters,

Brian

[Gage]

1) My first concern is the handling and speed of this car. IF this car is given a stock K20 motor, what kind of 0-60 time would you expect. Would it be faster than most modified super car on the street? What 1/4 mile time would you expect with a stock K20? I know the ariel atom has 300HP so not sure how 220HP would be. I really want a rocket of a car.


My guess is mid 11's to low 12's. With no real skill or training my best friend and I were hitting 12.3 with a 200hp Ecotec Atom with street tires and poor traction. But no one is going to leave any motor stock on one of these cars. Whatever motor you go with the car is going to be fast. The factor you may not yet be aware of is that because of the open cockpit the car feels way faster than it is. I can't explain that well enough, but it is a great perk.

2)How would the handling of this car compare to a car like the ariel atom? Is the frame, suspension, etc. as good quality? I've noticed nobody on the forum has commented on the handling and driving of this car, even the people who have completed the kit build.

Alloysius has good things to say about his car. In Australia they are tearing the track up with a 4G63 Car. Also, RCR has been building race cars for almost a decade. When I have driven my own SL-R enough to learn more, I'll let you know.


2) Seems most are using the K20 engine, is this the best option currently for this car? IS there a better option if you want maximum HP? If I was to buy a K20 honda engine, can I later modify this same engine to get 300HP? Would a supercharger fit?

I went with a K series because of past experience, because of the huge aftermarket support, ease of finding quality tuners, and the likelihood of Honda's continued existence. But you could put almost anything in an SL-R and go really really quickly. The Ecotec motors and Mitsu 4G63 and newer power plants are great ideas. Make life easier for yourself and find something that has great aftermarket tuning support.

For example, if you have a master 4g63 tuner in your backyard, go with that motor. If you have one of the best honda tuners in the country near you, go that route. I have learned through much blood lost and pain suffered that tuning (I.E. a good tuner) may be the single most important element in how much fun you eventually have with your car.

I'm not from the planet where people leave their motor stock. I don't speak that language or understand the mentality.



3) Would the shifter be on the right side of me and function just as a honda 6spd should would?

Yes. And if you've driven five or six different manual transmissions from different makes of cars you will appreciate that Honda has one of the smoothest shifting, delightful to use, manual transmissions in the world. A great motor is only as good as the shifting interface that you must use with it.

[Edward500]

Hey Guage, thanks for the info. I'm eagerly awaiting your feedback when you get the car on the road. Especially considering the fact that you have driven an atom, so you can compare the two cars, hopefully unbiased.

[Chadillac]

The powerband is definitely effected by a supercharger. You lose a ton of power driving the blower. :)

Trust me, I have a Vortech supercharged 2,580lb. Cobra and a SP63 powered Supra.

Now if we could just get that LS2 to fit and find a manual transaxle with a limited slip that could candle the torque. :)

Later, Steve

I saw a site the other day where they were swapping LS series engines in Pontiac Fieros. One guy even had an LS7 in there. This company makes an adapter plate for the LS engines to attach to the new Pontiac G6 FWD transaxle. In theory, you could get an LS7 powered exocar! But I'll leave that to Conquest351 and Bolus.

[Gage]

2) Seems most are using the K20 engine, is this the best option currently for this car? IS there a better option if you want maximum HP?


Well, options make life more entertaining. It may be that buying a motor built from the factory for boost is a better or cheaper way to get maximum power. (or putting in a transverse V6/V8) There are those who would insist that only if you are going to stay NA, go Honda, and if not, go another route. Personal preference really has allot to do with some choices.

If I was to buy a K20 honda engine, can I later modify this same engine to get 300HP? Would a supercharger fit?


I have talked with Kraftwerks, providers of the new Rotrex Supercharger kits here in the states. (Or see Ebay Rotrex kits). From what I have learned about their kits available now and in the future, their shouldn't be any problem supercharging the K series on an SL-R. 300whp is considered to be a conservative goal for those kits.

The Devil's advocate will tell you to simply buy a factory boosted motor and upgrade a few parts.

[Conquest351]

I saw a site the other day where they were swapping LS series engines in Pontiac Fieros. One guy even had an LS7 in there. This company makes an adapter plate for the LS engines to attach to the new Pontiac G6 FWD transaxle. In theory, you could get an LS7 powered exocar! But I'll leave that to Conquest351 and Bolus.

:drool: Yeah, that might be something I'd try. LOL How did you know?! Maybe put a whipple on there or something to make it completely retarted fast?!

:run:

[Edward500]

This is interesting, a DIY supercharger on Ebay. Please read discription
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EATON-M62-SUPERCHARGER-JEEP-VW-HONDA-AUDI-CHEVY-BMW-MG_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1171Q7c66Q3a2Q 7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a 1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem5 ad10e57e0QQitemZ390054434784QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTr uckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

I wonder if you can buy this and hook up your own supercharger for under $500 dollars, this would save big money than buying a $3000 supercharger from one of those other companies.

If all a supercharger does is blow extra air into the engine, then this should work if you can custum fit it to the engine. What do think?

[Conquest351]

The Eaton Roots type supercharger is a great low end power adder (by low end I mean low RPM). The problem is it is the fact it heats the air significantly. To fully benefit from this type of supercharger, you need to use an intercooler.

If you're going with a supercharged engine, might as well go with one like the GM Ecotec that came in the older Cobalt SS or Saturn Ion Redline cars. The new Cobalt SS is turbocharged (me likey much more). The supercharged Ecotec engines have an integrated water to air intercooler which helps cool the intake air charge significantly. You can cobble together a supercharger kit if you want, but the hours spent in R&D and fabrication would surely pay for the kit designed for the engine you're using. Jackson Racing makes a great kit for the Honda engines using an Eaton.

If I were going supercharger, I'd go with a Whipple. The way the Whipple works is like the Eaton, but it's much more efficient. It compresses the air inside the supercharger as opposed to inside the intake manifold like the Eaton. This keeps the air charge temperature down and makes the supercharger more efficient at higher RPMs as well. They're expensive though. LOL You will see that this is the most common upgrade for the '03-'04 Mustangs as it's pretty much a bolt on replacement for the Eaton. At the same boost pressure, they're seeing about a 20% increase in power just with that swap.

You could also go with a centrifugal supercharger like a Vortech or ATI Procharger. Those are relatively inexpensive for the head unit and then you build your own brackets and piping. Those are more for the top end charge than low end grunt. They do need time to spool up, kinda like a turbo.

My only beef with superchargers is they take about 90hp at full boost to spin (this was determined on a 4.6L Mustang with a Vortech S-Trim) and that's 90 more horsepower you could have to play with. Yeah they may add 200 or so, but still.

That's why I like TURBOCHARGERS!!! Yaaaaay!!! :thumb2:

[Steve Jarvis]

I talked to the guy that makes the Fiero adapters for the LS engines. The trans has no limited slip and it's not rated to handle 400hp. :(

Later, Steve

[Chadillac]

I talked to the guy that makes the Fiero adapters for the LS engines. The trans has no limited slip and it's not rated to handle 400hp. :(

Later, Steve

Hmm... I wonder what they did for the LS7 then. But I'm sure even an LS1 in an exocar would still be insanely fast.

[Crazyhippy]

Woo Hoo, rightup my alley. I Have worked for Renegade Hybrids (www.renegadehybrids.com) putting insane HP into Porsche 914's. Worked for Vortech for a little bit. And am playing w/ turbo's on my current project.

Fact is, you can make HUGE HP w/ any form of forced induction, and can make as much as an Exo car needs NA.

Look @ HP to weight#'s. A 250HP Exo has the same Hp to Lb ratio as an 800 HP Mustang. There are not many people out there that dont think an 800 HP Mustang is fast.

A 100HP sportbike (most modern literbikes) @ 400lbs is slightly better HP/weight. How fast is a modern streetbike? Un-godly fast!!!:thumb2::D

300 HP would be as fast as a 1000HP Mustang, Vette, pick your favorite modern 3500lb sports/musclecar.

Dont get hung up on HP wars. A "Mild" low HP motor is disgustingly fast @ these weights.

I'm de-tuning a 380HP motor to 320ish in an 1800lb car, because 380HP is just toooo stupid fast.

:king:

[Edward500]

crazyhippy, I understand your point about power to weight ratio. But are you able to compare these numbers? Will a 250HP exo that runs 11 seconds on the track be comparable to a 800 HP mustang? WIll the mustang also run just 11's at the track?

Or does other factors come into play that will give the 800HP mustang an obvious advantage. For example, like the extra weight will give it more traction etc.

But I hope your right about those HP numbers. I would love to have such a fast car.

[cheapracer]

Or does other factors come into play that will give the 800HP mustang an obvious advantage. For example, like the extra weight will give it more traction etc.

.

Not one single advantage, I have no idea how many times I have heard "weight will give you more traction" but it is absolutely not true either in the real world or in math and physics.

Speed is a different story as again mentioning math, things start to get squared in energy needs as big speed comes and a 800hp Stang may well do 200 mph while a 250hp Exo will not - BIG DEAL.

[Edward500]

DO you know at what speed that HP is more of a factor? Like at what speed will a 800HP mustang vs a a 250HP exo reach wehre the higher HP mustang will have an advantage. With the two cars assuming they have a equal power to weight ratio.

[Chadillac]

DO you know at what speed that HP is more of a factor? Like at what speed will a 800HP mustang vs a a 250HP exo reach wehre the higher HP mustang will have an advantage. With the two cars assuming they have a equal power to weight ratio.

I'd imagine that the amount of HP would come into play once your engine starts putting a large portion of it's power to overcome wind resistance instead of accelerating mass. And because wind resistance increases by the velocity squared, it can increase very quickly.

In order to find the exact speed in which a 800 hp mustang would have an advantage over a 250 hp exocar, you'd have to calculate the coefficient of drag and the cross sectional area of each car. Using the sum of the forces you could get a rough estimate of their acceleration curves. You would have the sum of the forces a function of velocity and then set that equal to the mass times acceleration. Solve the differential equation, and there you go.

F(v) = m x dv/dt

Making a wild guess I'd probably say about 100 mph you'd start seeing the Mustang take the advantage.

[Crazyhippy]

I'd imagine that the amount of HP would come into play once your engine starts putting a large portion of it's power to overcome wind resistance instead of accelerating mass. And because wind resistance increases by the velocity squared, it can increase very quickly.

In order to find the exact speed in which a 800 hp mustang would have an advantage over a 250 hp exocar, you'd have to calculate the coefficient of drag and the cross sectional area of each car. Using the sum of the forces you could get a rough estimate of their acceleration curves. You would have the sum of the forces a function of velocity and then set that equal to the mass times acceleration. Solve the differential equation, and there you go.

F(v) = m x dv/dt

Making a wild guess I'd probably say about 100 mph you'd start seeing the Mustang take the advantage.

I'd say closer to 85 or so. Exo Aero truly is horriffic:awais:

crazyhippy, I understand your point about power to weight ratio. But are you able to compare these numbers? Will a 250HP exo that runs 11 seconds on the track be comparable to a 800 HP mustang? WIll the mustang also run just 11's at the track?

Or does other factors come into play that will give the 800HP mustang an obvious advantage. For example, like the extra weight will give it more traction etc.

But I hope your right about those HP numbers. I would love to have such a fast car.

The trouble you will run into @the track is an 800HP stang will (or should)have had tons of trans, and suspension work (and slicks too). Every Exo i'v seen has made Handling a MUCH bigger priority than "the Launch." A well set up drag car makes you think that Zeus reached down w/ a sledgehammer and smacked the back bumper when the light turned green. Aside from the 1st 60ft thoughor if you find someone w/ a roadcourse 800hp mustang), they should be the same quickness.

I got a phone call @ Vortech from a guy that was LIVID about how he installed a kit on his Viper, and now his neighbor's viper beats him in a quarter mile:huh: His trap speeds went up almost 20mph, but he couldn't drive it anymore, and somehow his lack of talent was my fault:king::D

[Gage]

Have you guys seen this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2a6ypw4Z_U Zero to sixty in 2.8

I've ridden in that Atom. It is making around 400 hp. I don't remember the numbers on Calscot's car when that video was made.

However, from what I've seen, Very light weight cars are always predicted to be much faster then they in fact are. People and horsepower calculators ignore traction losses and driver skill. The importance of traction should never be underestimated.

Still... a 1300 to 1500 pound car with a 200 pound driver and between 200 and 400 whp is going to be incredibly fast compared to nearly all other cars on the road or track.

Exposed cockpit Exocars are not built to race at sustained high speeds. They are made for brutal acceleration and twisty tracks. That is my opinion.

[Edward500]

Why are these cars so un-areodynamic? Is it because of the lack of a windshield? You would think that because they are very small, do have some aerodynamic body panels, they wouldn't be so much worse.

[Gage]

Its most like you are driving around spread eagle in mid air with no vehicle around you. You're upright body is a giant wind ram for one thing...
Most Atom owners actually prefer it that way.. I love the wind bath.. like riding a motorcycle, but high speed cruising is not practical without a helmet or wind protection of some sort.

A "visceral driving experience" is one of the most accurate and perfect descriptions ever applied to these cars.

I promise you, you can easily scare the crap out of people left and right without even hitting high speeds. At 60mph it feels like 100.

[cheapracer]

Why are these cars so un-areodynamic? Is it because of the lack of a windshield? You would think that because they are very small, do have some aerodynamic body panels, they wouldn't be so much worse.

Lack of everything, roof, bodypanels but especially 4 wheels sitting out in the air. The drag of an Exo is simply shocking, makes me laugh when I see aero Aarms offered for the Atom - sugar on a dogs turd as we Ozzie's say.

In answer to your earlier question, the speed thing, sure a Stang will start to leave the Exo behind very seriously from around 120 mph onwards (it would start to be ahead from around 90) but the difference will not make up for the other benefits, an Exo will soundly beat the Stang at any race track and leave the Stang for dead in tight to medium mountain stuff (real world).

Although I have no interest in such, there not a lot that would beat a 250hp, 600kgs mid engined Exo from a set of traffic lights either and your in the 12's or 11's with that combo for the 1/4.

[Conquest351]

I remember back in the late 90's when a 12 second street car was absolutely unheard of. If you ran 12's in street trim, your car was a friggin badass. With one of these cars, 12's should be easy, but a top speed run on the Salt Flats is out of the question. LOL

[Steve Jarvis]

I believe that pwr/aero ratio becomes more important than a pwr/weight ratio closer to 70mph.

I have raced several 600cc sportbike with my Supra (on pump gas with approximately 500rwhp) and we are pretty even at 70mph (where we usually start) but the faster we go, the more I pull ahead. It does stay pretty close until over 100mph though.

As a comparison, the bike has approximately 120hp and weighs around 600lbs. with a 180lb. rider. That is a pwr/wgt of 5.0:1. My Supra with 588 crank hp (500rwhp) weighs 3,800lbs. with me in it. That is a pwr/wgt of 6.5:1. The bike definitely has the advantage.

Let's add what will probably become the typical SL-R. 300hp, 1,500lbs. with a 180lb. driver (i'm being nice :) ). The pwr/wgt would be 5.6:1.

Later, Steve

[cheapracer]

I remember back in the late 90's when a 12 second street car was absolutely unheard of. If you ran 12's in street trim, your car was a friggin badass. With one of these cars, 12's should be easy, but a top speed run on the Salt Flats is out of the question. LOL

How true and 15.0 was the line where a car was considered very serious - how many family sedans will run close to that and do 150 mph today, it's insane.

[cheapracer]

I believe that pwr/aero ratio becomes more important than a pwr/weight ratio closer to 70mph.

I have raced several 600cc sportbike with my Supra (on pump gas with approximately 500rwhp) and we are pretty even at 70mph (where we usually start) but the faster we go, the more I pull ahead. It does stay pretty close until over 100mph though.

As a comparison, the bike has approximately 120hp and weighs around 600lbs. with a 180lb. rider. That is a pwr/wgt of 5.0:1. My Supra with 588 crank hp (500rwhp) weighs 3,800lbs. with me in it. That is a pwr/wgt of 6.5:1. The bike definitely has the advantage.

Later, Steve

Yeah bikes are shockers for drag, takes around 200hp to get 200mph regardless of weight.

So theres the summary for you Edward, pwr/weight for acceleration up to around 100mph and horsepower to push through the air from then on relative to 'normal' types of cars.

So if you want to go 200mph get an 800hp Mustang or if you want to go fast everywhere else that i consider real world, get an Exo!

[streetthrowback]

hey guys i'm new to this forum and was thinking of buying one of these kits b.c i have the tranny (ep3) and a build k-frank (k20a2 head with a k24a1 block), i love the k honda engines their just great overall best motor honda has built yet but my Q is not building the car buy registering the car, i currently live in long island, new york and dont know if i buy this kit and assembly it will i be ably to register it, any thoughts guys??

[Gage]

You need to do some homework. Call your local DMV's and find out. In many states there are loop holes. Contacting local kit car clubs might help you find ways around things.

[Edward500]

Hey,

I looked into what NY would require and even posted a post about some of the components.

http://www.exocars.net/showthread.php?t=3177

NY will require basically everything to get this car registered. It is doable from what I can see. You will need a windshield,bumpers,defrost... the car will mostly have everything else you require.


The best way to get all this information is to call DMV and they will mail you a free packet. 518-474-5282

There seems to be a helpful guy there that deals directly with this stuff. The only thing that scared me was that he said the ariel atom can never been street legal in NY. His reasoning was that it was made as a track car. What I didn't understand was that if you take an ariel atom and put a windshield etc. on it it should be street legal in NY, regardless if it was made for the track. I think I questioned him on this and he said nope can never be street legal here.

Since the ariel atom is so much like a superlite you should question them if an ariel atom can be made street legal by adding the necessary components.

You also have the option of registering the car in another state with easier requirements. if worse came to worse, register the car down in Florida. I heard you can even do this with a setup corporation and do not need an address in Florida. SO there is always an option to get this car on the street.

[Steve Jarvis]

You may also want to ask about sand rails or dune buggies, since they likely have more history on that type of car than an Atom. And those don't typically have bumpers.

Later, Steve

[mrbret]

Loads of great info in these few pages, thanks guys.



A 100HP sportbike (most modern literbikes) @ 400lbs is slightly better HP/weight. How fast is a modern streetbike? Un-godly fast!!!:thumb2::D


Just wanted to add a little note to this quote though.
Most modern 600cc sportbikes put out about 100+bhp & are about 340-360lbs
Most modern 1000cc litre bikes are closer to 150+bhp
& are about 370-390lbs (dry weight)
I have a stock 2007 Kawasaki ZX-10R that is about 388lbs dry with 160+ hp at the wheel. 0-60 in under 3 seconds & top end of over 170mph...... if you're balls are big enough (mine are not :()
Just goes to show what a little BHP and even less weight can do..... bring on the ExoCars :D

[Paul]

Anyone in Colorado with one of these or thinking about getting one soon? Do you think I could pass a sniffer emissions test with the SL-R if I ran E-85 in a 4g63 or SRT-4 engine?