Exotrike - the Talon RT (concept)

[michaelplogue]

I stumbled across this forum while I was doing some research for my reverse-trike project. I hadn't realized that there was a whole class of cars known as 'Exo' - you learn something every day...

I thought I'd share a bit of what I'm hoping to build relatively soon - still in the planning and researching phase (as well as saving up some money..... ). I should note up front: I'm not an engineer, nor designer, nor mechanic. I'm just another geek with a computer who's always wanted to do a project like this....

Like a lot of folks that have done one of these, I'm planning on slapping a motorcycle onto a frame with a VW front axle beam - probably the simplest and most cost-effective design. I'm currently stationed in Turkey, and I'm finding that all of the used bikes here are still pretty expensive (they have to pay a 37% import tax, on top of an 18% sales tax). Right now, it looks like my best choice will be to go with a Yamaha Drag Star (aka V-Star) 1100cc.

I would have liked to to a double wishbone front suspension, but after doing some research on the net, came to the realization that it's nowhere as simple as it looks - and that the engineering is well beyond my existing knowledge base. Hence, sticking with the simple VW setup. I'm not going to be racing this puppy, so simple and functional works fine for me....

So far, this is my most recent design - not really sure how many styles I've thrown around, but I've got a huge collection of renderings of all my past 'mistakes.'

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Trike%20FB-04/Fb-04-04a05.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Trike%20FB-04/Fb-04-04a01.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Trike%20FB-04/Fb-04-04a02.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Trike%20FB-04/Fb-04-04a03.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Trike%20FB-04/Fb-04-04a04.jpg


Some preliminary 'sketches' of the frame. The 'exterior' frame is 1.5" tubing, the two main beams running from the front beam axle are 2x2 square tube, and the rest is mostly 1" or 1.25" tubing. I don't plan on making this crush-proof. The beauty with going three wheels is that most places it is still classified as a motorcycle - thus not having to meet all the sundry safety requirements. However, just by going with 3 wheels makes it significantly safer than a two-wheeler motorcycle. However, I do think that it should be able to withstand an impact fairly well.

With this design, I'm hoping to use purely mechanical connections to the motorcycle frame - as opposed to simply welding it on. I'd like to have the option of completely removing the bike for maintenance. So, I'm planning for connections to the steering tube, at the base of the front slope (where the foot controls would normally be found), and on the backbone where the seat would have been.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Trike%20FB-04/Fb-04-04b05.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Trike%20FB-04/Fb-04-04b03.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Trike%20FB-04/Fb-04-04b04.jpg


As much as I'd love to have the external frame chromed, I realize that this would be impractical - and cost prohibitive. So I'll probably go with a black/gray theme for the frame and the main body panels. I plan on using some colored carbon fiber panels for the accent strip (in these renderings, I'm just using a metal-flake material)

http://compositeenvisions.com/rigid-carbon-fiber-panels-1/?zenid=651d05d49015e5a3fcf0be73b640e6a3


I've also been working on a reverse system - which is a weakness in using a motorcycle for the drive train. Since the Drag-Star is a shaft drive, I'm not particularly excited about slapping a cog on the shaft with an electric motor that would mate up with it (as some have done). So, I've decided to go with a friction drive setup against the rear tire. I think I've come up with a good solution, though I'm not confident that there will be sufficient 'grip' against the tire. Basically, I've designed this around a geared, dual axle electric motor that is pushed into place using a linear actuator (with a 4" stroke). The unit will be bolted to the motorcycle frame where the seat would have been, and when retracted, would be concealed by the engine 'cowling'. Because I'm concerned that a regular rubber wheel might not have enough grip, I'm also considering using a 5" diameter sprocket or gear - which would have good enough 'bite' yet not so sharp as to damage the tire. By using two wheels instead of one, it can come into contact with the less-used rubber away from the center.

The motor is mounted onto a 'Y-beam' which slides in a corresponding channel (which the back side of the actuator is attached to). The channel portion of the assembly can be solidly bolted or welded onto the motorcycle frame.

Assembly retracted:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Trike%20FB-04/Reverse03.jpg


Extended in contact with rear tire:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Trike%20FB-04/Reverse02.jpg

The motor I'm looking at is this one:

Geared dual-shaft electric motor
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/NPC-2212.html

And this is the linear Actuator (with 4" stroke)
http://www.qualitymobilevideo.com/6177e.aspx

As I've said... I'm not an engineer. So I would really appreciate any comments or recommendations. This is still a concept design, and I'm very open to suggestions.

I'm a government drone currently stationed at the US Embassy in Ankara Turkey. As such, unfortunately they put us all in apartments. So I don't have a garage, workshop or tools (or welding skills for that matter). So, part of my quest will be to find someone here would would be capable of doing most of the metal work - and doing it well. Fortunately, I do have some time, as I first have to save up some clams before I can get started. I don't want to drag this project out too long, so I want to be able to purchase everything I need all at once so that there is no down-time.

Thanks for looking, and please shoot away with candid critiques!


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[pook]

I like it! Your computer skills are awesome BTW!
The VW front end, I know it works but if memory serves it also goes into positive camber in a turn?
Have you looked at just grafting an already proven suspension? I think the Mustang II would work very well and at least you could have some control over caster, camber, etc...
Very Nice!
Danny (PooK)

[B-T]

I like the way you have the frame covering the motorcycle mechanicals. The weakness of the indycycle (sportcycle as it was later called) was the obviously grafted look. The front end should be pretty wide for stability, even though it looks nice to be narrow in renderings. Good luck, it should be fun!
BT

[golftdibrad]

Your cad skills are great!

That v-star motor is a heavy piece of crap. I'd look elsewhere.

I like your design, should be fun!

[michaelplogue]

Thanks all! Sorry I haven't responded earlıer - I'm travelıng rıght now and just got my fırst chance at the ınternet for a whıle (ıf you notıce some of my letters are a bıt wıerd, ıt's because I'm usıng a turkısh keyboard........:(

@pook -

One of the maın reasons why I'm (at least ınıtally) goıng wıth a VW front end ıs the avalıabılıty aspect. I know I can get a VW front beam axle here locally. I could possıbly order a Mustang setup, but ıt would exceed the weıght allowed through the Embassy postal system (DPO), and ıf I had ıt go through regular turkısh maıl, ıt would be ellıgıble for customs/dutıes. That's stıll a possıbılıty, but I'm stıll throwıng together my shoppıng lıst - so I'll have to see what sort of budget I'll be lookıng at.

Before I left on thıs trıp, I had been doıng some research and computer modelıng of a double swıngarm suspensıon. I seem to have stumbled on a unıque geometry that wıll keep both front wheels 'flat' durıng body roll from a turn. Thıs may not sound specıal, but ıt seems to work no matter how long or how dıfferent the upper and lower swıng arms are. When I get back thıs weekend, I'll post what I've come up wıth so far..... Just so y'all can tell me what a complete ıdıot I am (whıch ıs very lıkely :run:)

However, lıke I saıd, thıs keeps the tıres both flat on the ground durıng a turn, and from what lıttle I've read so far on the subject, ıt appears that the perfect setup would be to have both wheels (at the very least the outer one) to have the tops canted ınto the turn - ın order to account for (and take advantage of) the tıre's lateral roll. Yet at the same tıme have the tıre treads flat on the straıghts. I may be able to achıeve thıs usıng what I've fıgured out so far - but we shall see.........


@B-T

Wıth the VW front end, ıt wıll stıll be narrow - ın comparıson to most cars on the road. But sınce thıs ıs a sıngle seater that wıll hopefully be relatıvly lıght, I' hopıng that ıt won't effect ıt's performance too much. For the most part, thıs wıll be a cıty commuter and secondarıly as a hıghway cruıser. I want to make ıt as compact as possıble for the sımple (pratıcal) reason of parkıng, and the narrow lanes ın many parts of thıs cıty. These partıcular renderıngs are showıng 5" wıde front tıres. I dıdn't want them to vısually overpower the rear wheel, but I've done some addıtıonal renderıngs wıth 6 1/2" tıres and ıt looks better (plus, rıms and tıres ın the larger sıze are much more avaılable than the narower ones).

I trıed to dısguıse the motorcycle as much as possıble. I have trıed some desıgns that completely cover everythıng - ıncludıng the back wheelç. However, by hıdıng the rear wheel wıthın the body, ıt gıves the whole vehıcle and unballanced look. So, I ıntend to keep the back wheel out ın the open as much as possıble - purely for asthetıcs than anythıng else.

@golftdibrad
I've actually started doıng some experımental renderıngs usıng Super-Sport (crotch-rocket) type bıkes as well. There are several advantages.

Fırst, they are lıghter as well as shorter (I could trım off a good 12" off the back end of the frame). Thıs gıves ıt a more ballanced and proportınal look.

Second, the sport bıkes tend to be more effıcıent and not quıte as loud (though I thınk thıs ıs more due to the pıtch of the motor than anythıng else).

Another thıng that I thınk ıs neat about these bıkes ıs that there are electronıc 'speed' shıfters avaılable - whıch would elımınate the need for a mechanıcal connectıon for the shıft pedal.

The down-sıde ıs tryıng to connect the vehıcle frame to the complex - usually allumınum -frame. These frames do not extend below the motor (whıch ıs an optımal poınt to connect to the vehıcle frame ın addıtıon to the steerıng tube). So, I would have to rıg somethıng specıal.

Another dısadvantage ıs that they do sıt hıgher - and I don't really want the engıne 'hump' of the car to be too tall. Howeverö ıf I make my own gas tank, thıs wıll not be an ıssue.

Anyway, when I get back 'home' thıs weekend, I'll provıde some more detaıls, plust a couple of other ıdeas I've been tossıng around ın my head durıng thıs trıp.

Thanks agaın everyone!


.

[michaelplogue]

I've posted my musings and experiments on the double wishbone suspension geometry in the "Suspension" section here:

http://www.exocars.net/showthread.php?p=11047#post11047


I'd appreciate any comments from you guys. I'm no expert in this sort of stuff, and I'd like your knowledgeable opinions as to whether I'm on to something or not.

[michaelplogue]

Here are some new renderings - using a crotch-rocket sport bike in lieu of the cruiser. It shortens the overall length by nearly a foot. I've also widened the front wheels to 6 1/2" (from the 5" ones on the previous pics).

The only way I could get this style of bike to work without increasing the 'hump cowling" was to remove the stock gas tank and 'fabricate' my own - which also gives me a much larger capacity.

The only tough part will be to figure out how to connect the main body frame to the (usually) aluminum twin spar upper frame commonly used in this style of bike.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Trike%20Fx-01/Fx-01-0105.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Trike%20Fx-01/Fx-01-0101.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Trike%20Fx-01/Fx-01-0103.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Trike%20Fx-01/Fx-01-0104.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Trike%20Fx-01/Fx-01-01b05.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Trike%20Fx-01/Fx-01-01b01.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Trike%20Fx-01/Fx-01-01b02.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Trike%20Fx-01/Fx-01-01b03.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Trike%20Fx-01/Fx-01-01b04.jpg

[michaelplogue]

..... And, a few "money-shots" to round off the evening..... :D


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Trike%20Fx-01/Fx-01-01d05.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Trike%20Fx-01/Fx-01-01d07.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Trike%20Fx-01/Fx-01-01d02.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Trike%20Fx-01/Fx-01-01d01.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Trike%20Fx-01/Fx-01-01d06.jpg


.

[pook]

A few things to consider, First a sport bike rear swing arm wont take twisting loads very well and will need some serious bracing! (It's been tried)
Second, most bike rear wheels don't have the correct wheel bearings to take a side load. even the larger heavy Harley wheels only have single roller ball bearings.
And third, a bike tire with it's round shape puts very little rubber to the road and the rim may or may not have a safety hump to hold a car tire?
All of this wont matter much if it's just an in town run about, but remember a bike was never intended to corner upright.
Just some food for thought.
PooK

[cheapracer]

The VW front end is an excellent choice and positive camber can be reasonably well eliminated by caster which on such a light vehicle won't give the disadvantages that goes with it sometimes.
In the VW world there are many widths to choose from including in aluminium too.
Go with the ball joint front end and you can adjust things to give a little static camber.

[michaelplogue]

A few things to consider, First a sport bike rear swing arm wont take twisting loads very well and will need some serious bracing! (It's been tried)
Second, most bike rear wheels don't have the correct wheel bearings to take a side load. even the larger heavy Harley wheels only have single roller ball bearings.
And third, a bike tire with it's round shape puts very little rubber to the road and the rim may or may not have a safety hump to hold a car tire?
All of this wont matter much if it's just an in town run about, but remember a bike was never intended to corner upright.
Just some food for thought.
PooK

Some very good points - Thanks! As you say, I don't plan on pushing this very hard - just city and highway cruising. No race tracks for me.... I know that a lot of folks have done similar conversions, and I haven't heard of any failures of the swing arms - which I hope is a good sign.

Regarding using a car tire - I had not originally planned on using one just for simplicities sake. However, this being the drive wheel, I figured I would want something with a larger contact patch. Luckily, I came accross a forum dedicated to using car tires on bikes (They call it 'going to the Dark Side - hence the name of the forum). So hopefully I'll be able to get some good pointers. Since this is not intended to be leaned as a motorcycle, I think that a lot of the concerns that people have about this sort of usage would not really apply in this situation.

http://mcdarksiders.forumotion.com/forum.htm



The VW front end is an excellent choice and positive camber can be reasonably well eliminated by caster which on such a light vehicle won't give the disadvantages that goes with it sometimes.
In the VW world there are many widths to choose from including in aluminium too.
Go with the ball joint front end and you can adjust things to give a little static camber.

I've been looking at this setup, which should do the trick:

http://www.mofoco.com/item/VW_ADJUSTABLE_BALL_JOINT_DISC_BRAKE_FRONT_AXLE_BEA M_COMPLETE_FITS_1966_AND_NEWER_BUG_GHIA/594

https://www.mofoco.com/item_images/VWP%20113-400-403DL-2T.jpg

I see that they also make sway bars and caster adjusters, so I'm thinking the VW axle will be my best option for this application. Not planning on doing any hard-core driving with this, so this should be more than sufficient.

[cheapracer]

One thing that is a huge advantage with a VW front end for a trike is that the suspension is a trailing arm, as pure as you can get. Caster for you is very simple, you don't have a VW so your caster will depend on how much you lay back the front end when you adapt it to the chassis and then you will have to sort out your ride hieght but there are adjuster kits and adjustable height front ends to be bought as well (the gold things in the middle of the tubes in your pic above are adjusters).

For a trike this means that when you hit a bump the overall stability of the vehicle is less effected as the wheel moves backwards as it goes up over a bump, also one reason that this layout was/is so successful in offroad racing. With your trike you would have all wheels using trailing arms, I suggest it would be inherently stable because of this factor (in regard to hitting bumps/potholes, I can't vouch for the other dynamics).

Many custom VDubs on the net that can steer you (pun intended) on how to make a VDub front end look trick as well such as cut the towers off and use coil overs for example.

[pook]

Oh cool! I was not aware they could get that kind of adjust ability out of a beam.
PooK

[michaelplogue]

Here we go.... THIS is what I need........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx1kpNduuKQ


Then I can ride down the street hoppin' (though that may be a bit dangerous with only one rear wheel). I could then throw some spinners on it, and some ground effects lights, a whopping huge spoiler, curb feelers, and fuzzy dice hanging from the.... Oh wait, no rear-view mirror - CRAP!

Oh well ....... never mind. If I can't have the fuzzy dice, then none of the rest is worth it.. :D

[Kram]

I think your 'thing' would be ideal for a VMax engine with the benefit of no chain.

[michaelplogue]

I think your 'thing' would be ideal for a VMax engine with the benefit of no chain.

Oddly enough, that was my first thought as well. They are a nice and compact yet powerful bike with a short wheelbase. But unfortunately they are pretty rare over here in Turkey, and also quite expensive. A brand new 2010 Vmax in the US lists at $19,500. Over here, the same model sells for $31,000. Unfortunately the only used ones that do come up for sale - and are still within my price range - are from the early 1990's....... with a whole lot of mileage on them.

[cheapracer]

Similar with VDub front....

http://reversetrike.com/scorpion.html

[michaelplogue]

The Scorpion was one of the trikes that motivated me to get off my butt and start planning. Some of my initial designs were very similar, but as you can see, it evolved somewhat.

Got a quick question for you guys. Based on my renderings of the frame, what would you guestimate it would cost to have someone (back in the US, UK or other European country) to fabricate it for me? I'm pretty sure I can find enough competent welders over here in Turkey. However, I'm not so sure about finding someone who can do the complex tube bending with their compound curves. At the very least, I'm thinking I could have someone in the US do all the raw CNC bends, ship them over here, and have someone local do all the assembly.

Any clue what it would cost for either a complete fabrication, as well as just doing the bends for the outer frame?

[michaelplogue]

Hope every one back in the States has a good tryptophan-laden holiday!

Did a few modifications with my design today. Increased the outer frame tube diameter to 2", increased the width of the body (so I have room to carry stuff - groceries, luggage, golf clubs, etc. And also canted the brighter-colored accent stripe - which I like as it gives it a more streamlined, aggressive look, as well as making it more visible from any angle (with the added effect of enhancing the safety factor - I want to be seen by these crazy drivers over here.....).

I may have widened it a bit too much, as now it appears it will interfere with the steering.......

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Fx2-01/Fx2-01-0609.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Fx2-01/Fx2-01-0601.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Fx2-01/Fx2-01-0602.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Fx2-01/Fx2-01-0603.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Fx2-01/Fx2-01-0604.jpg

.

[michaelplogue]

I decided to give the main frame a re-design. I wanted to come up with something that did not require any complex curves in the main frame, so I stuck with single, large radius bends for all tubes except the roll bar. I also wanted it to have a large enough 'engine' compartment to accomodate some of the larger bikes - like the kawasaki hayabusa bikes.

After I got it done, I had a funny feeling I had seen something like it before, and went through the Photo thread on this forum. Sure enough - There's the Sonic Seven..... Although the shape of mine comes from the external frame as opposed to the rectangular frame of the Sonic - the outer shape is very similar....... I guess form does follow function, and great minds think alike.... :o.

In these renderings, I've used a model of a Honda CB 1300 (Very similar bike to the Yamaha XJR 1200 in shape and size).

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx-02a02.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx-02a01.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx-02a07.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx-02a09.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx-02a03.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx-02a04.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx-02a05.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx-02a06.jpg

[michaelplogue]

This frame looks like it should be able to accommodate pretty much any bike - except probably a Honda Goldwing. But at this stage I'm not concerned with that as they cost a small fortune over here.

Although it looks a bit long, it's basically the same length as a BMW Mini, and about two feet shorter than the new VW Beetle.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx1-03a02.jpg


With a Honda CB 1300 or a Yamaha XJR 1200 (pretty much the same bike style/size)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx1-03a02HondaCB1300.jpg


Suzuki Hayabusa 1300

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx1-03a02KawaBusa.jpg


Yamaha YZF R6

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx1-03a02YamaYZFr6.jpg



Yamaha Star series cruiser

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx1-03a02YamaStar.jpg

[Gage]

I would like to see a rendering with a wind shield. That is the first thing I would add if I bought one.

[michaelplogue]

I would like to see a rendering with a wind shield. That is the first thing I would add if I bought one.

Ask, and you shall receive.....


This is just a very rough "sketch" of a smaller screen - chin high - which should deflect most bugs and keep them from flying down your shirt collar... :run:

Also roughed in a dashboard finally. I'm in the process of rendering a fly-around animation, so computer is tied up for a while before I can do any other work on it.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx01-04-b001_001_color.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx01-04-b001_002_color.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx01-04-b001_003_color.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx01-04-b001_004_color.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx01-04-b001_005_color.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx01-04-b001_006_color.jpg

[michaelplogue]

Even though I have simplified my design to use a simple radius bend for all of the curved parts (except the roll bar), I'm planning for the eventuality that I may not be able to find anyone here who can roll the tube to the proper radius. If that is the case, I would have to resort to a mitered frame. Just did a single rendering of this one. Can't say that I like it as much as the curved version - but in a pinch it will do I guess........

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Trike%20Ax01/Ax01-02b01.jpg

[michaelplogue]

A little video - to include an animated fly-around clip near the end.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grMssmWgRow


.

[cheapracer]

That looks much more blanced with the windscreen.

Those curves don't look dramatic enough to not be able to do with some simple tooling, except for the roll bar. Surely theres some heat available to make a one off roll bar by hand? Age old method, wels a cap on one end, pack the tube tight with sand, weld a cap on the other end, heat and bend. Lay out some wooden blocks as a jig and don't mind the smell of the wood burning.

Depending on the quality of the steel you may be able to just use a block and tackle to get the curves doing a compression pull - if the steel is crap it may kink in a weak spot. there are a number of metal forming groups/forums on the web with different methods to achieve various bends, Google them.

I notice the squared off roll bar long before the squared off framework so I think the roll bar is much more important to have curved.

[michaelplogue]

I stumbled across this tubing roller at Harbor Freight. Yea, I know - it's Harbor Freight - and you get what you pay for. But for the seven tubes I would need to have rolled, it should last long enough for that if I take it easy enough. I would just need to rig a simple jig to keep the tube straight for each pass to make sure I end up with a nice and flat curve.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=99736

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/99700-99799/99736.gif

I might be able to do the roll bar with this by incrementally decreasing the length of the pipe through the roller - Though I may just be best off sending this off to do with a CNC company and have it sent back here. May cost a bit but I'd prefer to have it done the way I want it, not "I guess that's good enough...."

Other good news today: I found out our office has it's own warehouse where it stores furniture and whatnot for our apartments. If I get the go-ahead from my bosses, I may be able to use it as a workshop and do the build myself. :coolnana:

[Gage]

I like it. The wind shield and dash board give it a far more realistic impression and this machine would be light and reasonably quick, I.E. fun to drive. Great stuff!

[cheapracer]

I do my 180 degrees roll bars in a simple hand pump style pipe bender, 3 bends equally spaced - 2 outside bends at 60 degrees then the middle one also at 60 to 'bring 'em round'!

Not this model but this type....

[cheapracer]

By the way, that front end looks very narrow, is that standard VW width?

[michaelplogue]

By the way, that front end looks very narrow, is that standard VW width?

As far as I can tell. I based the rough model off of these two drawings. One of my co-workers has an old bug, bur for some reason she doesn't want me to tear it apart to get accurate measurements - the nerve of some people, so selfish.... ;)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/VWFrontAxleBeam.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/image013.jpg

[cordycord]

What's the expected wheelbase?

[michaelplogue]

Wheelbase looks like it will be roughly 110" (280cm). If a smaller bike were used - like a YZF 600 - it could be tucked in a bit more and trim five inches off of that without any clearance issues.

[cordycord]

Interesting--not as long as I thought. The RCR Nemesis is about 100" long if I remember. Not that they're the same target audience, but just for reference.

[michaelplogue]

Rendered some environmental shots with a bit of post-work...... Just for ships-n-giggles.....


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx01-04Money05c.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx01-04Money01c.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx01-04Money06c.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx01-04Money07c.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx01-04Money03c.jpg


.

[cheapracer]

IMO - at the rear the heights of A and B should be the same (lower the top rear of A).

The side panel A is a bit bulky, is it possible to see it at the same height as B and with the same mesh as the lower engine cover please?

[michaelplogue]

IMO - at the rear the heights of A and B should be the same (lower the top rear of A).

The side panel A is a bit bulky, is it possible to see it at the same height as B and with the same mesh as the lower engine cover please?

Hey... quit reading my mind! :D I was actually thinking same myself regarding the lengths of A and B. If you look at the side shot, what I had did was make B and C (the middle section) the same length as A when seen from the side.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx01-04-b001_005_color.jpg

However, it only really looks 'ballanced' from that viewpoint. What I'll probably do is to 'square off' C, and make B the same as A. I can make A a bit shorter, but then you may run into clearance issues with the gas tanks on some of the larger bikes - such as the Hayabusa 1300's.

I'll throw the mesh texture on the upper cowling panels to see how it looks. Though personally, I'd prefer to keep as much of the bike as hidden as possible. The nice thing about this design is that one could pretty much use whatever material you wanted as they are all simple flat sheets connected via tabs on the frame. One could concievably even have the panels painted with a different color on each side. As long as the two sides of the body were sufficiently symetrical, you could just swap the panels from one side to the other to achieve a different color scheme.

[cheapracer]

But if you changed C to be similar to H then K would oppose T when you consider that J was so close to Y just under Q.

UC?

[michaelplogue]

Well, I've been tossing around some ideas for a universal mounting system. Have pretty much settled on using a supersport version bike as they are more plentiful over here (used). These first renderings show the mounting for the front of the bike, utilizing the steering (head) tube. The members in orange are adjustable - simply position them where you want and drill the respective holes in the two hanging brackets (which are welded to the main frame). The head-tube is held firmly in place using "compression" cones.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx1-05Mount02a.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx1-05Mount02b.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx1-05Mount03a.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx1-05Mount03b.jpg



For the rear - after some thought and consultation - I've decided the best bet would be to utilize the existing pivot point for the rear swing arm. It's the strongest connection point on the frame, and would simply require an extra-long (hardened) bolt. From the various 3d models I have (non of which are 100% accurate mind you), I've determined that there is a relatively small area where these pivot points would occur in relationship to the frame. So I've also made this adjustable. The orange plate can be bolted in any position vertically (again drilling the respective holes on the two 'tabs'), and the hole for the mounting bolt would be drilled in the appropriate horizontal position. I'm hoping that 1/4" plate steel would be sufficient for this part. Although they are not shown here, there would be spacer 'sleeves' that would help in keeping the bike centered to the frame. The supporting struts for the forward 'tab' may look a bit frankenstinian, but I had some clearance issues with the larger bikes, and I wanted this to be well braced to provide sufficient lateral support.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx1-05Mount01a.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx1-05Mount01b.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx1-05Mount01c.jpg

[NormL]

Your rendering skills are amazing! :clap:

[michaelplogue]

I've also been playing around with a two-seat version. Similar.... but different.


And Happy New Year to everyone! The Turks have a tradition of shooting their guns into the sky for New Years - so plan on being indoors - huddling in my bathtub - when the clock strikes midnight.... . :nervous:



http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hy1-07_001_color.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hy1-07_002_color.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hy1-07_003_color.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hy1-07_004_color.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hy1-07_005_color.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hy1-07_006_color.jpg


.

[michaelplogue]

Latest frame configuration for the single seater:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx1-05Frame_001_color.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx1-05Frame_002_color.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx1-05Frame_003_color.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx1-05Frame_004_color.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx1-05Frame_005_color.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx1-05Frame_006_color.jpg

[cheapracer]

Ohhhh nice!!

Shame to put bodywork on that!

[Pagester]

I'd be interested to see a full rendering of the full design without the body panels - I agree - it looks really sweet without the bodywork

Oops - page 3 shows a rendering without the bodywork

[michaelplogue]

All right....... For all you perverts out there wanting to see some nekid pics, here you go...... :tasty: :D

I added a 1" bar half way down so that one can put in half-panels (so your groceries don't go flying out when you take a hard corner....


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx3-04Nekid-_001_color.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx3-04Nekid-_002_color.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx3-04Nekid-_003_color.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx3-04Nekid-_004_color.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx3-04Nekid-_005_color.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx3-04Nekid-_006_color.jpg


.

[michaelplogue]

Here's some semi-nudes......

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx3-05Nekid-_001_color.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx3-05Nekid-_002_color.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx3-05Nekid-_003_color.jpg


,

[Pagester]

very nice - both variations are excellent

[michaelplogue]

Thanks! One last version for the evening - a little "Mad Max" flavor....

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx3-06Nekid-_001_color.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx3-06Nekid-_002_color.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx3-06Nekid-_003_color.jpg


,

[michaelplogue]

OK... I lied..... One more set of renderings. I had been using a model of a standard car seat - which sat a bit high. I actually liked this as it would allow for a more comfortable, bent-knee position. However, I finally got a good race seat model, and found that if I just tilted the whole assembly back a bit, and lowered the whole kit-n-kaboodle, I would still have a nice bend for the knees. When I did this, I found that I could eliminate the top portion of the roll bar.

So what do y'all think? Better with or without the roll bar? I could even narrow the top portion of the 'hump' a bit so it doesn't look so bulky.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx4-01_001_color.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx4-01_002_color.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx4-01_003_color.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx4-01_004_color.jpg


.

[Karlo]

l like the lower seating with the deleted roll hoop!!!!

[golftdibrad]

I like the lower seating. I miss the roll bar, but I also think it didn't quite fit as a bend. To keep with the angular lines you could extend the structure behind the driver up but cut it off and make the top flat. excuse the pcpaint mashup of your awesome rendering, but it will show what I speak of...

http://www.exocars.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2721&stc=1&d=1262561799

[Pagester]

I agree with Brad - I miss the roll hoop part of the design, but the lower seat looks great. It almost makes the back section behind the drivers head seem a bit bulky now though. I did a quick photoshop tweak as a what if - not that I'm trying to hijack your design :spin:

I'm liking the exotrike idea more and more...

[michaelplogue]

OK..... I was able to narrow and lower the top of the hump - which helped reduce it's bulkiness. I tried the squared off roll bar, but with the new angle, it looked to 'pointy' if I raised it enough to be of any use. I was able to put a single radius bend on it though - which looks nice as well as makes it easier to build (the original bar had a fairly complex curve to it.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx4-03_001_color.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx4-03_002_color.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx4-03_003_color.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/Hx4-03_004_color.jpg


I now have a concern regarding the front suspension and ground clearance. The way it's set up now, the front axle beam sits on top of the bottom curved side member. I have been planning on using an adjustable VW axle beam, but I've already had to (virtually) raise the axle a couple of inches for this current configuration which I believe is the most it can go. As it sits right now, I've only got 3-3/4" ground clearance - which in my mind is not enough for city driving. The parking garage at my apartment has some steep ramps, and I'm sure I would bottom out coming over the top edge. I know you can remove the trailing arms and re-position them at a different angle. I just don't know how far one can go before performance starts to take a dive.

Another concern is that with the addition of the half-height side rail, it currently passes between the two beams of the axle. This would mean that the axle would have to be built into the frame - which I want to avoid.

One solution would be to put a vertical bar directly to the rear of the axle beam running from the bottom to the top curved side members. This would give me a good mounting point for the axle. It would leave a bit of a gap at the nose, but I could live with that.

Another solution would be to re-visit my idea of using double a-arms. This would make things a bit easier, and give some more space inside the nose (right now it's a bit tight for pedal clearance). I've been doing a lot of searching on the net trying to find a complete system that includes arms and uprights. I was looking at the Caterham setup, but they are designed for pretty small wheels - which don't look very good on this particular frame. I'm wanting to use wheels that are around 17" (to match the standard size rear wheel on most bikes), and I don't know if the Caterham uprights would be able to accept these without major modifications.

So, does anyone have any suggestions on some stock (and matched) arms, shocks (Coil overs), uprights, hubs and brake kits that can be easily adapted for this application?

[Pagester]

very nice!

[golftdibrad]

I like!




I now have a concern regarding the front suspension and ground clearance. The way it's set up now, the front axle beam sits on top of the bottom curved side member. I have been planning on using an adjustable VW axle beam, but I've already had to (virtually) raise the axle a couple of inches for this current configuration which I believe is the most it can go. As it sits right now, I've only got 3-3/4" ground clearance - which in my mind is not enough for city driving. The parking garage at my apartment has some steep ramps, and I'm sure I would bottom out coming over the top edge. I know you can remove the trailing arms and re-position them at a different angle. I just don't know how far one can go before performance starts to take a dive.



Another solution would be to re-visit my idea of using double a-arms. This would make things a bit easier, and give some more space inside the nose (right now it's a bit tight for pedal clearance). I've been doing a lot of searching on the net trying to find a complete system that includes arms and uprights. I was looking at the Caterham setup, but they are designed for pretty small wheels - which don't look very good on this particular frame. I'm wanting to use wheels that are around 17" (to match the standard size rear wheel on most bikes), and I don't know if the Caterham uprights would be able to accept these without major modifications.

So, does anyone have any suggestions on some stock (and matched) arms, shocks (Coil overs), uprights, hubs and brake kits that can be easily adapted for this application?

1. 3-4 inches ground clearance is ok for most places in the city. I get around fine in my golf and miata.

2. Lotus 7 bases wishbones are available and easy.

[michaelplogue]

My day job has been keeping me busy. Just did a bit of tweaking of the frame. I thought the shoulder rails were a bit too high, so I lowered them a tad. I also increased the radius bends on all of the curved members, allowing me to narrow the front end a bit - gives more room for turning the wheels. It also solved some of my ground clearance issues - have about 4 1/2 inches now.

I had to play around with the mid-height bar so it would not interfere with the installation of the front axle beam. Because the shock towers would have made it difficult to weave around any vertical bar, I've connected the front part of the mid-height bar to the main member just above where the axle connects. I've also kept it with the same radius bend as everything else. The axle itself is connected to two vertical beams on the inside of the frame.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/TalonRT-Ai-05_0.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/TalonRT-Ai-05_001_color.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/mplogue/Trike/Hx-01/TalonRT-Ai-05_002_color.jpg

[JackSwagger]

Very nice pictures, the design and look is really great, the whole structure is well design and is quite innovative concept for this type of car.