"Spec" Exo Car Race Series

[Karlo]

I have met someone today that shares the excitement of started an exo car spec race series. If it gets off the ground it will be in 2009. Anybody have input on this topic.

[Gage]

Okay, I'll be the one to ask a dumb question. What is a "spec" Exo Car Race Series?

[Karlo]

Most of the thoughts are still Ideas.

Choosing "a" manufacture for the rolling chassis. Or choosing frame design that can provide the safety needed by track owners that each different manufacture can build to a "spec".

Then choose an engine package the will be reliable in use and plentiful. That engine will be built to spec and "factory" sealed. There will also be spec tire.

This will be similar to FFR Racing spec cobras series.

[Pagester]

as someone that currently races in a spec series - the idea of an exocar spec series is certainly appealling - however, I think the manufacturers involved might be more interested in a series where several of them can compete against each other. the rules would obviously be a challenge to create with the different configurations out there - but with some thought, it could be done.

Then again - a track full of SL-R's with the different engine combos would be very cool also

I'll be very interested to see if this gains some traction

[Karlo]

I'll be very interested to see if this gains some traction

There seems to be momentum. Mazda / Cosworth engine i think will be the engine choice.

[cheapracer]

I am certainly a candidate for supply, I doub't anyone in the world could match my prices based in China and it's part of my long term plans too. I have already an incomplete single seater design waiting in the wings for a spec series but the experience I am getting right now developing my Exo car can easily be transfered. The great thing about an Exo car is the bad aero's will keep the top speeds down, always a good thing as I see it.

[Karlo]

I need to get an update from Kirkham Motorsports to see if they are still moving forward.

[CMC#5]

Hey guys, I'm new to this site but not new to managing a race series. I've been racing wheel to wheel for quite a few years now, and I'm a national director for NASA's Camaro Mustang Challenge.

I have a question for the population:

What is sounds more appealing, a spec series where you have to buy this frame and that engine and those springs etc. or a more open configuration enabling multiple chassis/engine/etc combinations but where ultimate performance is rationalized using things like weight/gears/power maximum (this is how world challenge, koni challenge etc maintain competition using many different types of cars)

[Pagester]

My preference would be for the later. While option 1 is more like the Spec-944 series I run now - I think that a series that was open to all exocars would be very cool, not only for the racing, but also for the growth of exocars in general. The power to weight equation has been used successfully in so many series now that its a proven way to balance the playing field. Then the only other rules items would have to be how crazy people are allowed to be in the suspension, etc.

[Karlo]

The Miata Series seems to have some good success, my thought was that model of racing.

Although the any frame / chassis with any engine would work if we had multiply manufactures on board to support the series with uniformity maybe.

[Pagester]

Another good example - they have cars with multiple engine displacements and model years running together - utilizing weight, throttle-body plates, etc to equalize the field.

[CMC#5]

spec miata grew like mad because the cars were cheap to build and as reliable as any race car has ever been. Now, the cheap part is not necessarily true any more but that is for a different topic.

Fundamentally, spec series are quite different in that the choices that would impact performance have been made for you to a very large degree. This is of course easier to manage, but without big support from someone (Mazda brought the goods) that is difficult to sell.

There are tons of strategies that have been successfully used to level the playing field in ammateur and pro classes, that isnt a real problem per se. A bigger issue is the desire to face it, and the desire to have drivers experimenting with fundamentals of vehicle setup or just being handed the keys and going.

[cheapracer]

Regardless of what the decision is, money will always win so you need to choose what will keep the 'not so well off' close to the front. Spec chassis, spec engine, spec inlet plate with ECU's handed out just before the start (plug and go). The engine needs to be very common and cheap supply.

People aren't stupid, many know they don't have the bucks or the talent to win but when they start getting lapped they quickly dissapear from a series - they want to feel they are sharing, not feel embarrassed to be on the same track.

The Miata series is the most popular in the USA. It's a good balance betwen cost, performance and is fast enough to scare most. A while back the SCCA, through various surveys, came to the conclusion that at $15,000 the amount of people willing to compete drops severly, another reason the Miata's are popular.

The last series I ran (for motorbikes), I catered for the rear 90%, not the front loudmouthed 10% and had great success (the club and series are still going very strong), something to keep in mind.

[Karlo]

With all said above. What price point and engine type would be best in your opinions?? Would the car be single seater or two?

[cheapracer]

With all said above. What price point and engine type would be best in your opinions?? Would the car be single seater or two?

Price point would depend on who is willing to supply and at what level. A roller for 10K + safety equipment would be a nice starting point, I expect to be told I'm living in a dream world though.

A 2 seater is easier as it can be turned to a road car and is a bit bigger giving a safer feeling and more identifiable as a sports car.

Engine's simple, any large production run such as Zetec, Camry, Nissan, Ecotec etc. front wheel drive unit of around 2.0 litres preferably about 5 - 10 years old that can be bought low mileage for around 1K. People with money are immediately going to rebuild them anyway and low budget people can run a used engine to get started ontrack so theres no need for a more expensive crate motor that the better off will rebuild anyway.

[CMC#5]

You can spec engines, or allow several and use a hp and tq limit with dynamometer testing to ensure parity. As a matter of fact, in NASA we've found setting power limits below what the engines naturally make to be a great way to eliminate cost. You run a restrictor plate to get down to max power, so there is no point in spending money on a race quality rebuild.

I agree that a late model 4 cyl/trans from a front driver is ideal, but mostly because I'm more familiar with those. Are motorcycle packages cheaper than say a rebuilt k20 honda? Are they capable of putting up with standing starts?

Another big bonus of the 2 seater...giving friends and potential drivers hell rides. This is grass roots, and nothing sells better than a ride in the car (not during a race session!)

The lower the up front cost the better. I'm pretty sure there's no limit to that equation :D

[cheapracer]

Yes and No.

We agree a spec inlet plate, my meaning was as you, slightly smaller than the actual throttle body for lower than standard hp - it works and a 'race' rebuild will get you precious little gain.

No to dyno testing, engine sealing etc, thats where costs start to creep in. Just have to put up with the fact that there are haves and not haves, the restrictor plate and stock ECU will tighten the field up enough.

I saw a 10 year old Camry 2.2 today and theres 1 engine/trans option for example, bet you could get a low mileage one of them with box and ECU for less than a grand.

[Pagester]

definitely has to be a 2-seater - for exactly the reason CMC mentioned - ride along is a great marketing tool

as for price I'd say 20K-25K is the barrier you probably dont want to pass for a series like this - since the cars will be mostly new builds, it'll be hard to get under that amount. Classes like CMC, Spec944, Spec Miata all benefit from the fact they are built on old used cars to keep the costs lower. I bought my 944 for $2500 and that was for a great driver quality car.

[Gage]

People are sold on a product by taking a ride in it. Far more rides will be given to someone as a passenger than as a driver.

The passengers go and rave to anyone and everyone they know about the experience they had, and many of them long to be "The Driver". More cars are then purchased.

I bought my Atom based on a passenger seat ride in another one.

I've seen the power of the passenger seat over and over. LoL

With all that said, weight savings result from a single seater configuration.

[cheapracer]

as for price I'd say 20K-25K ......, it'll be hard to get under that amount. .


Not at all.

Roller = around 10K (less safety equipment)
Engine = around 1K (used and explained above)
Safety Equipment = ??
Tyres = (for consideration, Street? Hoosiers?)

I would actually like to go cheaper for the roller but worried about money market fluctuations in the last year to commit.

Very happy to discuss why you think it may not be possible?

You do understand it's only a steel and fibreglass product don't you? - Let me put this to you, would you pay $65,000 for a Spa?

[Gage]

Not at all.
Roller = around 10K (less safety equipment)
Engine = around 1K (used and explained above)
Safety Equipment = ??
Tyres = (for consideration, Street? Hoosiers?)

You do understand it's only a steel and fibreglass product don't you? - Let me put this to you, would you pay $65,000 for a Spa?

:clap:

[Pagester]

how many complete kit/roller are advertised on this site for $10k?

[Gage]

how many complete kit/roller are advertised on this site for $10k?

Read his comment again and examine the context of those quotes.

I don't think he was saying they are abundant.

Very few companies here in the States have tried. That is what I hope to see change.

A kit costing 20k plus, or a finished Toy (i.e. track only with no practical use) costing 30k to 100k, is a product much like the current Atom. They will only be purchased by a very very small group, especially in a recession ridden economy. And the competition is stiff for the buyers who will spend that much money on a pile of pipes and an engine.

I think Cheapracer is suggesting that a roller kit can be produced for far less than some of the tremendously marked up products that we see on the market. Such kits are currently far more common over-seas.

Personally I believe that many potential kit manufacturers "believe" there is a relatively large market for expensive kit cars or exocars. I talked to Craig Bramscher of Brammo Motorsports (former maker of the Ariel Atom) on the phone when he stated that they believed once their production facilities were in place they would "START" at around 300 Atoms a year and go up from there to as many as a thousand a year. Well...

I'm waiting on the company that produces a real performance bargain. It may be staring me in the face. However, I'm not convinced yet.

[Karlo]

how many complete kit/roller are advertised on this site for $10k?

The Mev Rocket and the Mev Sonic7 are real close

[cheapracer]

how many complete kit/roller are advertised on this site for $10k?


I don't know, I just know what I can do the job for. If they can do it for cheaper, more power to them, if they are dearer I hope they can justify it and again, more power to them. I will always stand on the argument that if they are all the same it doesn't matter if you use some lower spec components for the job. You don't need carbon fibre when you can use fibreglass/aluminium - if they are all the same!

This isn't my first go at it, close to 20 years ago I built a race car, costed out and detailed on paper a spec race car to be built at home (I would supply the chassis) with a used motor and got knocked back by my country's governing body. It was 1/10 of the then current cheapest competitive class (FFord). One of the considerations was what effect it would have on the then cottage racing industry as a whole.

One of my life purposes is to build a cheap spec racing car for the working man, always was - I'll get there and soon.

[cheapracer]

The Mev Rocket and the Mev Sonic7 are real close


How close?

I think a bunch of Sonics would look good flying around a track - mind you thats not Exo's is it.

[Karlo]

How close?

I think a bunch of Sonics would look good flying around a track - mind you thats not Exo's is it.

Do not know for sure how clo$e until one is shipped to the USA. I am hopeful soon. I think the Exo theme is evolving a little :)

[Pagester]

hmmm - I never looked at the US order form for either of those - just looked at the UK site and figured the exchange rate would make the prices meaningfully higher. $6300 for the Sonic and $5500 for the Rocket - certainly puts it into that neighborhood

I agree that seeing a group of Sonics on a track would be sweet (true not much of an Exo - but cool)

Basically my comment wasnt to say that it couldnt be done, just commenting on how many of the current manufacturers have already blown through that price.

[cheapracer]

I and I'm sure others are always a little bit confused when it somes to how much a kit is going to cost you as a "roller".

$6300 for the Sonic + donor car.

For a start and for our purposes you would imeddiately have to add the seats, roll bar and who wouldn't want powder coating? So theres another $1000.

I think that it will still be on the right side of 10K with a bit of work and I'm happy they can supply for that.

My rollers should have everything except the actual engine and engine wiring loom, certainly the base model will have gearbox and custom wide CV's. I have to figure out kits I suppose.

[CMC#5]

Having a "spec" intake restrictor only works if everyone is running the same engine package. Although it is more complex to manage, I think allowing flexibility in the engine package but assuring they're all under specific hp/tq numbers (that are low enough that anything over a bone stock build doesnt net an improvement) will enable higher car count. Dyno certification is simple, and relative to the cost of campaigning a car for a season, dirt cheap (under $100 in most areas).

Any way you slice it, allowing choices add complexity to the rules. Removing choices removes potential series supporters (aka manufacturers).

[cheapracer]

The idea is to have just 1 engine. You won't get manufacturer support for a cheap minded series such as this and if you did thats when the price war will start in earnest.

How do you think you will police certification? Seal them? It just becomes complicated.

I am taking the view of pure club level racing.

[CMC#5]

Pure club level racing is what I do. Its just not that difficult to enforce. Everyone has to dyno once a year and make the results public. Anyone can be sent to re-certify by the series officials if they're suspected of playing games. The occasional surprise dyno and the fear of being kicked out of the series has proven to be plenty effective.

Remember, club level racing means no prize money, only pride. There is no pride in beating someone because you cheated. All drivers keep an eye on each other. We've had one real problem in the last six years...over 200 cars nationwide.

Recently we've started playing with GPS signal based monitors that can measure acceleration rates real time. This is really promising as an alternative to the dyno. There is actually one series that's already moved to this instead of engine dyno certs.

[Gage]

I hope the GPS stuff takes off. It would allow real time monitoring at every event and probably completely eliminate cheating of one sort.

[cheapracer]

At the same time, I'm unhappy and happy at Frans single seater. I already have one 50% developed and finished design wise and saw the same market Fran's seen. He has beaten me to the punch but then again he makes people hungry for them as well - to my advantage.

Will be the cheapest race series car in the world if I get it right :-)

[Conquest351]

I believe you guys are on the right track. This type of racing would be extremely fast, and extrordinarilly inexpensive. The only thing that your car would really consume would be brakes and tires. Even with the power the engines are producing, you're only going to sip fuel. If you guys need any help with anything, I'm volunteering myself as an extra hand as needed.

I want to see this series pop off.

Laters,

Brian

[Conquest351]

OK...
I just read this whole thread and let me offer my suggestions...

I believe that you should have 2 classes running together kinda like LeMans. You can run a single seat and 2 seat version at the same time. The single seaters are probably going to be faster because they're a little less weight, but the 2 seaters seem to have a touch more room for the engine. Anyway...

As for engines, I believe you should have that open. But, they have to stick to a certain power to weight ratio. They all have to be certified at a dyno shop, either have a mobile dyno come out and do the runs there, or have a local shop host the dyno day, but you have to have a printout in hand and the cars are then quarantined.

This will keep you from having someone with a 650hp monster out there raping the whole field. There are many race series who do this and I think it's a great idea. If someone has an engine laying around that will fit in the exocar, go for it. But it's gotta strictly apply to the power to weight ratio. Penalties will be added weight to the vehicle. This can be good or bad though if the weight can be put anywhere. In the 2 seater cars, all the extra weight sits in the pass. seat. Single seaters... I have no idea. LOL

With this you can also open it up to the Exo-Extreme class where you up the power to weight ratio for super quick cars. There's lots of opportunities with this kind of car and this kind of series. I know that NASA would be a great sanctioning body because I hear they're very open to new series ideas.

Anyway, that's my take. Let me know what you think.

Brian

[Conquest351]

Ok, thinking about this I have another idea, so hear me out...

Spec Honda SL-R Class.
You run a particular Honda engine that's been put together as a factory rebuild and nothing fancy about it. There should be a few different engine shops around the nation that can do this within specifications. It's a factory spec rebuild and that's it. No head modification, not compression ratio increases, none of that. Just a stock B20 or whatever sent to you to be put on the car. The only modifications is the air intake and header/exhaust. That's it. Spec tires, spec engine, spec factory gear box, and there ya go.

Spec SL-N Hyabusa Class.
Factory Hyabusa engine and gearbox. Again, offered straight from Suzuki or a certified builder who will build to spec. Factory spec that is. Same deal as above, spec tires, spec engine, spec gear box, and there ya have it.

Open SL-R Class.
Just as it sounds, engines are open, tires are limited in size though. This is where you get to the edge of too much power for the chassis. There needs to be limits on electronic aides though. I'd think something like factory or stand alone ecu, no traction control, no abs, that kinda stuff. Boost controllers would be open though. I'd stick with a spec tire and aerodynamics. Front and rear spoilers are allowed, but that's it.

Open SL-N Class.
Again, just as above. Spec the tires, Aero, and Electronics, but leave the engine open. If it'll fit, it can run. LOL


What do ya'll think?

Brian

[Karlo]

IMO if all cars that are based on FWD setups in the backs of the cars; create classes on hp to weight, you will get more cars on the grid.

[Conquest351]

IMO if all cars that are based on FWD setups in the backs of the cars; create classes on hp to weight, you will get more cars on the grid.

Yeah that's true. HP:LB is a great equalizer and will leave the engine options infinite. Would you have a Dyno at the track? There are companies with mobile dyno's who would gladly come out and run all the cars to get the correct numbers. Then you divide the cars up according to HP:LB and there's your classes. Sounds easy enough.

Now, when do we start building the series?

[cheapracer]

Ok Brian, I'll offer single seat rollers for near cost (see my name?).

Not complicated why - the publicity spin off will sell my road cars.

I will supply the engines and fitment in the States but specific racing items as seats, belts, extinguisher etc will have to be supplied and fitted locally.

This should end up in the area of easy 200hp+ pushing 400kgs very cheaply.

[cheapracer]

Yeah that's true. HP:LB is a great equalizer and will leave the engine options infinite. Would you have a Dyno at the track? There are companies with mobile dyno's who would gladly come out and run all the cars to get the correct numbers. Then you divide the cars up according to HP:LB and there's your classes. Sounds easy enough.

Now, when do we start building the series?

Dyno running is a cost added, 1 engine and hand out stock ECU's randomly 10 minutes before race start.

[Conquest351]

Ok, let's get it on then my friend. NASA (National Auto Sport Association) would probably be very keen to sanction the events. What's your pricing for a vehicle? I'd bet we could have a few people jump in quickly.

[cheapracer]

2am, I'm going to sleep, 2morrow ;-)

[CMC#5]

Hey Brian, where in central texas? You know NASA is running at TWS (College Station) the weekend of August 1st? Take a drive down and check out the racing.

NASA's CMC and AI classes each enjoy the flexibility of choosing your preferred engine within a range of options. I think that is better than demanding one engine. People have preferences. The other key is setting the rules such that you can easily make more power than you're allowed to run. Look around and you'll see top shelf spec miata engines cost well over what an entire SL-R kit costs. At the same time, CMC and AI drivers successfuly compete with engines they pulled from the junkyard.

I'd propose a similar layout to what we've proven works:
SL-R types, entry level, normally aspirated to keep it simple and cheap
SL-N types, higher end, motorcycle engines, much higher power to weight, turbos, etc.
SL-X...very few limits for those that want to fly on the road and care more for raw performance than wheel to wheel competition

[Fran Hall RCR]

My plan with the Nemesis is for a driver to be able to start racing...in class A with a 600cc engine....
progress after a season or two to class B with a 900-1000cc engine...
then later join the big Kahunas with open class 1300-1400 cc engines....
ALL using the same chassis....SUPERLITE NEMESIS.....
this will allow the driver to have minimal outlay for an upgrade....
Alos being used to the maintainance of the car (spares) and keep it under cost control/budgets (wife's happy)....

but still go faster and faster and eventually adding Aero packaging (wings) to the open class cars and go really fast without having to spend big $$$$$ and learn a car all over again....

The Nemsis is also aimed at the driver Ed. groups...

Imagine being taught to drive at a race school in a Nemesis and then actually being able to buy a similar car ...for open track or Spec racing....all with one car.

What do ya reckon...????...and the car is already being built and ready purchase....no pie in the sky stuff....

[cordycord]

My plan with the Nemesis is for a driver to be able to start racing...in class A with a 600cc engine....
progress after a season or two to class B with a 900-1000cc engine...
then later join the big Kahunas with open class 1300-1400 cc engines....
ALL using the same chassis....SUPERLITE NEMESIS.....
this will allow the driver to have minimal outlay for an upgrade....
Alos being used to the maintainance of the car (spares) and keep it under cost control/budgets (wife's happy)....

but still go faster and faster and eventually adding Aero packaging (wings) to the open class cars and go really fast without having to spend big $$$$$ and learn a car all over again....

The Nemsis is also aimed at the driver Ed. groups...

Imagine being taught to drive at a race school in a Nemesis and then actually being able to buy a similar car ...for open track or Spec racing....all with one car.

What do ya reckon...????...and the car is already being built and ready purchase....no pie in the sky stuff....

Phenomenal concept. Seriously Fran, I've only heard good things about your product.

[Crazyhippy]

Can also play w/ a spec tire for the lower classes, limit grip, and the "cheater" HP is useless:spin: Pick a decent street tire for the entry class, a "R" compound for mid level and go free for all @ the top level. Makes contingency money easier to chase too:thumb2:

[Fran Hall RCR]

Thats the plan....works with much success in the SCCA SRF class....

[Conquest351]

Yeah, I agree having 3 different classes would work great. Fran's Nemesis is an amazing vehicle, as is the SL-R. Both can be used pretty much in the same way. All you have to do is change out the engine. Hell, you could even use the same engine, but upgrade it for each class. You could go with a N/A 2.0L Eclipse engine and then upgrade it to stock turbo setup with stock cams and all that good stuff. Then in the unlimited class you can go hog wild with the engine. The motorcycle powered cars would be a fantastic series as well. I see no reason why there can't be a 2 seater series and a single seater series. That opens up lots of people to lots of levels to go play.

When are we going to work on this series guys?! Let's get it rolling, I'm all over it!

Laters,

Brian

[cheapracer]

....no pie in the sky stuff....

Have a look at the Jedi series in England, many years old running 600cc and 1000cc class, they also do it in Italy, cant remember the cars name, got a picture somewhere.

I have had my single seaters on the backburner for the last 3 years but they are next in line although I will change the frames to look similar to the Mongrel road car now for obvious publicity purpose..

[cheapracer]

Jedi's are here.....

http://www.formulajedi.com/series.php

The car is a John Corbyn-designed, lightweight spaceframe chassis, based on the successful Jedi design. All cars are built to the same specification to enable a level paying field. The class A engine is the Honda CBR 600cc 4 stroke, water-cooled, 16 valve motorbike engine producing 100bhp. This delivers a 0-60 time of 3.6 seconds and a top speed of 130mph. The gearbox is again from the Honda CBR and uses a sequential 6-speed with selection of ratios. Introduced in 2003, class B allows any bike engine up to 1000cc - tool of choice is currently the Yamaha R1 engine, but the class currently features Honda Fireblade and Suzuki GSXR machinery. Regulations aim to keep performance close between cars which produces close and exciting racing. All cars run on Avon controlled tyres.

[Fran Hall RCR]

I know the Jedis well...one of my good friends actually helped develop the cars over here in the USA ..Bob Lappan.
He commissioned a full closed wheel body to be made here in Detroit too...

Problem is they are very small and very race specific...the Nemesis can handle a driver from 5'5" to 6'4" with the adjustments only taking one minute....

Price is another issue too....a new turn key minus Nemesis is $19,995....just drop in your engine...ready to go.

The Jedi cars are also built down to a weight...not built to be tough and last for many seasons....great little cars though.

[CMC#5]

Somewhere there needs to be a balance between a class for each variable and the desire to have a home for all tastes. SCCA is often on the wrong end of this IMHO with events where there are eight classes in a run group with only two or three cars in each class. Personally, I think any more than three rungs on a ladder would be too much to start with.

The single seater class with multiple steps of increasing power and capabilities is interesting. I was thinking it'd be good to have the lowest rung involve a two seater since those will be cheaper (more of them available) and street legal. You could literally drive around one weekend and race wheel to wheel the next. That'd be very cool, no? I just think it'd be easier to convince guys to take the step from occasional tracking to full on wheel to wheel racing with the two seater. Then, once they're hooked on the junk... ;)

Having a spec tire is an absolute must. I'd toss in spec size as well.

[Conquest351]

How about a ladder like this...

- Exo-1: Entry level, 2 seater cars, normally aspirated 4 cylinder automotive engines to keep it simple and cheap. Single seater cars would be limited to 600cc motorcycle engines. Spec Tires & Sizes.

- Exo-2: Intermediate level, single seater cars mainly, 1,000cc motorcycle engines. 2 seater cars would be allowed turbocharged/supercharged 4 cylinder engines, etc. Spec Tires & Sizes.

- Exo-X: Very few limits. Powertrain options are unlimited. Aerodynamics are unlimited. Spec Tires & Sizes.

[CMC#5]

What's the cost incremental between a 600cc, a 1000cc, and a 1300cc motorcycle engine package? In other words, would the cost of upgrading a single seater's engine package really be much more than the cost of upgrading the entire car (sell the two seater and buy the single seater)? Assume a reasonable market of used cars of both types.

Making an SL-R and an SL-M competitive lap times wise is possible, but certainly not easy. Perhaps the biggest problem is that even once you achieve equivalent lap times it might not make for very good racing. The heavy cars would feel like they're parked in the corners and squirt down the straights. The light cars would have a hell of a time overtaking. Been there, done that...we got rid of it in CMC.

Maybe its best to leave the single seaters and double seaters permanently sepparate? This doubles the classifications :( I just hate to not include the double seaters since numerically there should be more of them in existence.

[Conquest351]

Well there is no reason why there can't be 2 sets in each class. I mean I do believe that the single seaters are much more "Track Cars" than the 2 seaters, but still the 2 seaters are going to be astonishingly fast. I don't see a reason why we can't have both.

2 seater SL-1, SL-2, SL-X
Single Seater SL-1, SL-2, SL-X

Works for me!!