TR-42 "Mako" body design evolution [Archive]

pook

10-13-2010, 05:27 AM

OK, I'm starting this post because We said we wanted feedback and we do!
To me this part is like Gage stated "Very Important" but unlike calculating bump steer for example there really is no right or wrong way, So for someone like me its tough:(

Bill and I went to outside help on this one and got some pretty cool idea's.

The side pods in the pic for example are VERY early sketch's of just basic shapes lacking detail and depth.

So having picked a design I started the mock up. Not having the research funding of GM and the feds...LOL! I did things the old fashion way, I built it.
A few problems came up instantly.

1. I had a tough time getting in the car, Bill had warned me about this (I didn't listen) I'm 5'10" but have short legs...stumps actually, and had to straddle a pretty wide area...NOT GOOD:thumbdown2:

2. Still convinced it was just me when My Wife and Daughter stopped in I had my 14 year old 5' 3" try to climb in, NO PROBLEMS:thumb2: Then she got out...crushed the side in:(

3. When I brought the design closer to the frame sides it looked funny and the side scoops became small. They may have worked for a oil cooler but would not work for a radiator or intercooler.

So that is the history in a nutshell.

It dawned on me that besides looks the body on this car has to have function AND looks. I made a list of what I needed and started a new design that addressed all the above. I'm about 60% done with the "New" mock up and liked it enough to go ahead and mirror cut the parts for the other side.
I hope to get your guys feed back this weekend.
Here is my list for the sides and feel free to add:

1. Has to have a shape that does not impede our wives from getting in the car...(If mama ain't happy NO ones happy)

2. Has to function as scoops or LARGE volume air inlets to cool...stuff.

3. Has to be easy on and off

4. Has to be pretty and unique.

5. Has to be affordable to lay up and replace (thats for you BT:D)

So I know this is a long post but wanted to update everyone on where we are and why, and we'll keep this section for just body comments and pics.

To be continued......
PooK

martkat

10-13-2010, 05:42 AM

1) like
2) like
3) like +
4) like ++
5) like
6) don't like
7) like
8) don't like

But, I don't know which of these may be too wide for adequate step in/out clearance

Marty

thebionicman

10-13-2010, 05:48 AM

About the same here. Not a big fan of 6 and 8.

As long as we can get air through the ducts I am happy.

pook

10-13-2010, 06:04 AM

It's taken a new direction entirely. The problem with the above designs was that I couldn't get both.
The trapezoid is next to the seat so to duct air into it the scoop had to be in front or at the spot that you would climb in. The new design (Not shown) narrows toward the chassis at this spot then jets out to form the scoops and they are much larger as I had to take in the fact that the Rads need a certain CFM of air to be effective but have to be enclosed to not cook the seat (and you)
The original car design was air cooled and only needed a small oil cooler...things have changed and so has the design so to speak.
PooK

B-T

10-13-2010, 06:41 AM

Just to be clear, we are asking for INPUT. This does not mean that everyone's opinion is going to have equal weight. We are doing our best to provide a good looking, functional, and unique, cost effective solution. Design by committee rarely is successful, but with the small group of interested people here I think the input will help shape what we will end up with. As I recall, I liked #1, 3, and 4 the best.
:)
BT

pook

10-13-2010, 08:01 AM

No, I didnt mean by committee as much as just "Hey PooK thats some ugly stuff there! you should start over"
I'm a fabricator, I see numbers, and like input on aesthetics:thumb2:
PooK

roadrunner76

10-13-2010, 08:07 AM

I like concepts 1-5.

Steve Jarvis

10-13-2010, 11:37 AM

#4, but it would really help to see these on a sketch of the car.

Later, Steve

B-T

10-13-2010, 12:11 PM

I think what we are going with is somewhat of a departure from the sketches. We want to have the rear scoops be functional, so they need to be larger than any of the sketches would allow. We also want to make it relatively easy to get in and out of the car without a need to go to the bodyshop. The good news is that since everyone pretty much agrees with what Danny and I like about the sketches, I think everyone will like what we have come up with for a good solution. I think when the whole thing is put together you will be shocked at all the value you get with this kit.

Stay tuned!
:)
BT

ViperJustin

10-13-2010, 07:55 PM

I think #3 looks the best. It looks to be the most "fuctional" with no need for a front intake (but need side intakes).

Steve Jarvis

10-14-2010, 04:40 AM

A good old fashion "coke bottle" design would work well.

Wide in the front, curving inward on the middle and then gettin wide again in the rear.

Just my 2 cents,
Steve

pook

10-14-2010, 05:04 AM

A good old fashion "coke bottle" design would work well.

Wide in the front, curving inward on the middle and then getting wide again in the rear.

Just my 2 cents,
Steve

Well, thats about the same conclusion I came up with.
Here are a few pics (These are rasp sanded VERY rough mock ups, I'm trying to get a feel without having to do a ton of work at this point)
Here was my thoughts,
The car is curved tubes (lots of curves) so I thought what if we went the opposite way with Trapezoid shapes to contrast?

The side are three pieces, the centers (slats) could be painted different for more contrast or even alum or CF.

The inlet at the rear is slightly larger than the Porsche uses to cool its multi rads and multi ac condensers.

The center section is shown open but its not! The rear section in front of the back wheel is also not done. I just haven't put the back on yet.

All that said I'm not sure it works? (I truly dislike this part) So while I agree with Bill that "design by committee" doesn't work, I'm just not comfortable enough to think I know better than the guy's interested in the car when it comes to aesthetics...SO FIRE AWAY and remember, Its just foam...Bill will buy more if we need it:D
PooK

martkat

10-14-2010, 07:03 AM

I don't have a problem with the angular design or the shape it has. My only concern is how it will blend with the other body parts. Will they be angular too?

pook

10-14-2010, 07:08 AM

That was my thought...sort of a "folded paper" look???

And remember guy's if I want "That's cute honey" Ill ask my wife...LOL!
So Let her rip.

I know Bill has mixxed feelings on the front "Pod" as do I Maybe smaller? not there? start over?
PooK

martkat

10-14-2010, 07:22 AM

To follow, I was also wondering if the front portion of the side pod could be smaller too. Maybe 2/3 smaller, just sort of a little larger than the flat mid section; enough to give some shape, but not so big as to take away from the rear scoop width.

pook

10-14-2010, 07:27 AM

So, do you mean pushed in towards the chassis smaller or shorter or both?
This is what I'm looking for.
I like tubing, It either fits or doesnt...LOL!
PooK

martkat

10-14-2010, 07:40 AM

Same height/shape/length, just not as wide, pushed in more towards the chassis.

pook

10-14-2010, 07:45 AM

Does it even need to be there? Its not functional.
PooK

martkat

10-14-2010, 07:48 AM

I say delete it, that's way cooler.

Pagester

10-14-2010, 07:53 AM

there you go - deleting that front bit looks much better

pook

10-14-2010, 08:02 AM

That was BT's comment as well I think.
PooK

roadrunner76

10-14-2010, 08:07 AM

I say delete it, that's way cooler.

I agree.

pook

10-14-2010, 08:13 AM

Then It shall be GONE!
Thank you guy's I just dont want to have another "Mean Grean trike" mistake on my hands.
PooK

thebionicman

10-14-2010, 08:49 AM

I like both, but for functionality I think deleting the front part is a better option. Should give a little bit more room for getting in and out of the vehicle as well. Gl

Glad to hear your comments about the size of the ducts.

I have a huge smile on my face looking at these pictures!!!

pook

10-14-2010, 09:11 AM

Bionic, When I got your email I figured I would just post it.
It looks odd in the front view pic but in this view you can see how far up under the slats it runs.
PooK

thebionicman

10-14-2010, 03:23 PM

Bionic, When I got your email I figured I would just post it.
It looks odd in the front view pic but in this view you can see how far up under the slats it runs.
PooK

That looks good to me!

pook

10-14-2010, 06:38 PM

OK, again just rough cut and the back is still unfinished but here is a few more idea's? Its just pinned together and not rounded. (I guess I'm just asking for opinions on the general shape)

The minimalist
That's a 3 inch cut off wheel for reference.
VERY few parts, Easy to build up in any material.
Follows the arch of the mid tube VERY well:thumb2: (even though the pics don't show it)
Mounts under the mid tube (looks clean) and stands away only 2.5" at the point of entry.
Thoughts?...too plain?
PooK

pook

10-14-2010, 06:39 PM

The Testarossa

pook

10-14-2010, 06:41 PM

The Stealth

pook

10-14-2010, 06:41 PM

My last idea

pook

10-14-2010, 06:43 PM

See I told you guy's this would be fun!
These are just quick mock ups of an idea I had, I can go back to the pod in the back?

If you landed on this page back up two or three posts.
PooK

martkat

10-15-2010, 04:33 AM

If the minimalist will capture and deliver enough air, that would be my choice

pook

10-15-2010, 04:41 AM

More than enough! 1.5X larger than the Boxter inlets.
PooK

roadrunner76

10-15-2010, 04:43 AM

I like the Stealth design. Will there be a mesh screen in the cutout?

pook

10-15-2010, 04:45 AM

I like the Stealth design. Will there be a mesh screen in the cutout?

Yes, or you will scoop up small animals:run:
PooK

martkat

10-15-2010, 04:47 AM

While you're in the area and so close, have you measured to see if there is adequate room for the 16.5 x 14 x 2 radiators that these side pod designs may be feeding?

pook

10-15-2010, 04:55 AM

Breaking from the subject just a bit, I found these Shifter Kart Rads, They are perfect as supplemental cooling radiators. They are for up to 1000cc engines.
Two plus the smaller main front unit should cool even the hottest motor.

May not need three rads and could mount an intercooler on the other side? BUT if I had the dims and one unit I could make sure the opening was correct and the tabs were there just in case one of you guys decide to run nitrous or something...LOL!

Going back later to weld on a powder coated frame will not be fun or pretty.
They are capped so air purge will be a snap and they fit the general shape of that area. Thoughts?
(they also sell fans to fit them incase)
PooK

pook

10-15-2010, 04:57 AM

I think we were posting (and thinking) about the same thing at the same time...
No the 16x14 will be a pain.
PooK

pook

10-15-2010, 05:08 AM

The flip side is that you cant OVER COOL the engine either, It has to get to temp to go closed loop so to speak, And there is a good chance that just the distance the coolant must travel will have a cooling effect and a single front may do the job.
I'm just trying to make sure we have options for the different engines. ie the street car may not need multi rads and the race car may.
PooK

Steve Jarvis

10-15-2010, 05:36 AM

Make sure you show the side pod with the rear tire mounted. I believe it was a big issue on the SL-R when the drawing showed the side pod as wide as the rear tire and then the actual side pod was much smaller.

Even though your side pod tapers in before the rear tire, the look of the pod realative to the rear tire is still important.

You may also want to consider a side pod that runs higher up the side in the rear. More like the "blade" on the Audi R8. The detail and flow of this piece will have a lot to do with the percieved richness of the car.

Later, Steve

pook

10-15-2010, 05:41 AM

Fantastic idea! Thanks Steve, I think Ill go cut some more foam!
To be continued...again
PooK

JonW

10-15-2010, 05:53 AM

More than enough! 1.5X larger than the Boxter inlets.
PooK

The Boxster radiators are up front. Side inlets are for combustion air.

martkat

10-15-2010, 06:04 AM

Make sure you show the side pod with the rear tire mounted . . .

Danny - my wheels/tires (rear = 17 x 9 / 255/40-17) are scheduled to be at your door on Wed 10/20/10 if you want an additional size for referencing the rear pod looks.

pook

10-15-2010, 07:48 AM

The Boxster radiators are up front. Side inlets are for combustion air.

Correct, Im talking about the air ducts in the nose.
PooK

roadrunner76

10-15-2010, 09:57 AM

pook

10-15-2010, 11:11 AM

What about putting the rear air intakes up next to the rollbars (see attached pic) and using stylish (non-flat), relatively low profile lower panels? Would that work? It should resolve the ease of entry problem.

I like the looks but it would be past the rads.
I think Ive got it, been making blue dust all day and should have something to show tonight.
PooK

pook

10-15-2010, 11:17 AM

Make sure you show the side pod with the rear tire mounted. I believe it was a big issue on the SL-R when the drawing showed the side pod as wide as the rear tire and then the actual side pod was much smaller.

Later, Steve

My first thought is I have to make the side scoops no wider than the smallest tire we plan to use 225's
My second thought is knowing you guy's no two sizes or offsets will be the same (much like engine choices)...LOL!
PooK

Steve Jarvis

10-15-2010, 01:38 PM

If the side pod isn't acting like a fender as it does on the SL-R, then it won't be as critical.

Of course you are correct, everyone will want something different. :)

Anxiously awaiting your new creation,
Steve

pook

10-15-2010, 02:31 PM

OK, OK, THIS time..LOL (still rough)

I took out all the space and pushed the center section (between the slats) tight to the frame and that made for a larger inlet and gives it a feel of depth.

Then I followed the mid tube that dives into the susp bar in the back to get away from the geometric shapes a bit.

Then I angled the upper slat down towards the outside.

Then I brought the bottom in front of the rear wheels up to follow the diffuser and to give us an additional exit for the air. (or if your creative a great exhaust outlet for the ecotec's)

The pics still don't look right but when your standing there it looks aggressive and hot rod-ish.

I still have to shape the slats but you guy's get the jist.

Thoughts?....can anyone spare a dime for some more foam:(

PooK

roadrunner76

10-15-2010, 02:50 PM

Nice! :clap:

pook

10-15-2010, 02:53 PM

I like it!
I have one more idea but it involves a giant roll of spandex....
PooK

martkat

10-15-2010, 03:28 PM

Me likey! Love the way it trails the rear bend of the tube!

Gage

10-15-2010, 04:07 PM

OK, OK, THIS time..LOL (still rough)
Thoughts?....can anyone spare a dime for some more foam:(
PooK

I liked the minimalist and the Testarossa. But I really like that last one Pook. I've been following every post but waiting to comment until something really struck me in a good way. That time just arrived.

I would offer an unnecessary reminder to keep cost and weight down by focusing on simplicity. I think it is important to remember that this Chassis itself is very attractive. With this Exocar it is easier then most others to use body panels like a bikini on a woman, just highlighting what is already there.

If I bought a car it would carry an inline four cylinder like the Ecotec LNF or Honda K24A2 /K20 series, turbocharged or supercharged, so the inter-cooler location is a big concern to me. (yes I am a broken record) The day someone ties up a pretend or real intercooler onto a Mako to demonstrate a functional and and cosmetically un-offensive location, I'll be delighted.

Great work. I hope it is obvious that I am a fan of what you guys are doing.

pook

10-15-2010, 05:11 PM

With this Exocar it is easier then most others to use body panels like a bikini on a woman, just highlighting what is already there.

.

Gage, you should have been a philosopher:clap: (I love that) and thanks!

PooK

thebionicman

10-15-2010, 06:17 PM

I like the last go through with side panels. Heck I still like the first one where it came out in front of the wheel but I can see where this last one has the best step over and air flow.

Gage

I am still thinking I am going to run a top mount intercooler. I guess it all depends on where things end up. I know I should have a better idea ahead of time but I have a BFH. I think with dual radiators and a top mount that should be plenty of air.

That being said I would love to run a radiator on one side and the intercooler on the other. I am hoping to get some time to do some research on thermodynamics to figure out if I can some up with the optimum radiator size. I can tell you all about the electrical side (EE) but the fluid side isn't my forte.

Pagester

10-15-2010, 06:56 PM

Looks great Danny - you have a winner

Steve Jarvis

10-15-2010, 07:47 PM

FYI the stock 1993.5-1998 Toyota Supra Turbo side mount intercooler easily holds 20 pounds of boost and will flow enough for over 400whp. This would be a great choice for the 4 cylinder turbo exocar and the size is probably a good match as well.

Later, Steve

pook

10-16-2010, 06:52 AM

If I had sizes....or actual intercoolers I could make sure the ducting/mounting fit...Hint Hint.
I apologize, I'm not up on the Suby Turbo stuff yet (I'm learning) So I have to rely on you guy's for whats needed.
That said I have to believe that while the original car was built around the type 4, that will prob not be the motor of choice. or maybe down the road it will? who knows.

So if you Suby guys want to send specs on pieces or parts for what you need NOW is the time as I can save us all a LOT of head aches by building in what you need...
PooK

martkat

10-16-2010, 07:36 AM

I've been searching ALL morning for 1994-98 Toyota Supra side mount intercoolers and all I find is aftermarket front mount replacements.

I'm with Erik in that I'd sure like to see if I could use those two side pod ducts to cool a radiator on one side and an intercooler on the other thereby leaving the nose of the car without a need for a radiator (or the piping to and from). But, as Pook mentioned, I don't believe there is adequate room for a radiator of significant size to be rear mounted (either single or double).

A factory Subaru radiator is about 27 x 14 so that's a 378 square inch surface area. Given the fact that a good quality aluminum replacement unit that is 2" thick and has 1" or 1.25" tubes will be more efficient, a somewhat smaller size may work just fine, but I'm not sure.

If this can all be figured out (by someone more talented than me), I'd be happy to send Pook the intercooler and radiator to use as a mount template for Erik's (and my) build.

There, the offer has been made, waiting for superior knowledge and research abilities. Bill? Steve? Bueller . . . Bueller?

pook

10-16-2010, 10:52 AM

If it were my car, I would keep the front rad just smaller, add a small side rad.
Fill the other side with this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250700596305&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

or this shape (don't know about the company) http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110457081203&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

OR I could make mounts to lay one over the engine like the 930 does and build you liquid cooled boys a scoop between the roll bars like the pic below (Picture the scoop upside down like a V) and you could run an oil cooler on the other side?

THE WORLD IS YOUR OYSTER just tell me what you want:thumb2:

PooK

AUGIE

10-16-2010, 10:55 AM

the stock ecotec lnf intercooler core is 26. 25 x 2.75 x 34.50 total lenghth. keep up the great work. :thumb2:

thebionicman

10-17-2010, 06:23 AM

I did a little looking at what is going on with the Midlana build. It looks like he is using a Grand National intercooler. This unit looks like it would flow a lot of air and make for fairly easy mounting. With the Subaru layout I would put this on the passenger side.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g234/thebionicman/TR-42/GrandNationalIntercooler.jpg

Its available from here for $100!!
http://www.ssautochrome.com/level.itml/icOid/1437

pook

10-17-2010, 06:29 AM

I saw many of those on ebay in fact there where over 500 pages of intercoolers there (I got board looking)
There are also 2 million water/air intercoolers listed that don't require direct air flow? does anyone know the advantage/disadvantage?
PooK

Steve Jarvis

10-17-2010, 06:41 AM

The disadvantage is that you need a water tank, heat exchanger (needs direct air flow) and a pump to flow the fluid. There is also a disadvantage if you can't get enough fluid or enough cooling in that the water will become heat soaked and no longer lower the intake temps. Another disadvantage is weight (the pump, water, etc.) and the complexity (there are a lot of lines and fitting to leak.

An air/air make a lot more sense in this car in my opinion.

Someone may also want to consider water/meth injection for intercooling like on my Cobra. Good in a street application, but not what I would want in a track car. You still need a tank and pump, but there is no need for a heat exchanger or having a part in the air flow.

Later, Steve

thebionicman

10-17-2010, 06:43 AM

I don't know what the advantage/disadvantage is. That site above has a large top mount intercooler for the Subaru engine as well. We can through another variable in there as well, the intake manifold can be rotated 180 degrees on the Subaru engine if need be.

Steve Jarvis

10-17-2010, 06:46 AM

BTW here is a picture of the stock MKIV Supra side mount. A lot of times these can be picked up used for $100 on www.supraforums.com

Later, Steve

http://mkiv.com/techarticles/greddy_fmic_for_stock_turbos/dcp_1980.jpg

Steve Jarvis

10-17-2010, 06:57 AM

Here is a good link that will give you the dimension of the intercooler. It starts with post #17.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-turbo-system-intercooler/234172-supra-smic-install-guide-long-version.html

Basically 6" deep x 11" wide x 14" tall if you count the end tanks and inlet and outlet pipes.

Later, Steve

thebionicman

10-17-2010, 07:00 AM

I just looked at the engine and jig pictures. I would think retaining the factory top mount location would keep things the most compact. Then we could possibly do dual small radiators.

martkat

10-17-2010, 07:58 AM

Also, with the Subaru system (which may be true with other systems), once you change the size of the intercooler from the factory size, you'll need to set the MAP accordingly.

Steve Jarvis

10-17-2010, 04:40 PM

You will need a scoop that seals around the intercooler so the air can't simply flow around for the top mount to be effecient (the side mount as well).

Given this, the scoop needs to be big enough to fit the largest intercooler and then a block off plate will be needed for the smaller intercoolers.

Later, Steve

B-T

10-17-2010, 05:56 PM

To answer what this thread is about, the last side pod design is a WINNER! (the other one I liked best was the minimalist)
I would say to go with the last version. It is simple, flowing, and clean. It will be an awesome match for the front end design.

Also, well done Wildcats in the game this past Saturday.
I was at FSU for parent's weekend.

:)
BT

pook

10-20-2010, 10:09 AM

Input on the console wanted.
This is where I am so far, I know it will need to hold a bunch of stuff, Radio, ECU's Fuses, etc...
I gave it a lot of room, and tried to give it some form more than just a cover so to speak. I have mixed feeling that it may look dated?

It removes from the car by lifting the back section up and off giving you access to the shifter and e-brake adjuster. Then you remove the back panel of the "box part" and sliding the console out.
The top is open with the hood off and sealed with foam gasket when its on.
Thoughts?

Please ignore the hood part as I'm still playing:D
PooK

roadrunner76

10-20-2010, 10:53 AM

I like it. Clean and simple. It would probably be a good idea to keep the panel surfaces flat like you have done. This will make it easier to mount the accessories. You could possibly put some forms around the E brake and shifter locations but they would need to accommodate all of the configurations that people will build. Instead, maybe include metal finish plates around these openings to dress it up a bit.

pook

10-20-2010, 11:04 AM

I hope once the shape is settled on to have Bill source us a shifter boot that I can use as a template.
I had also thought that the optional small fan shown to move the air in the ECU box (Like a computer fan) could be used as a defroster with just a few slits cut pointed at the windshield? There will be coolant tubes under this box on the liquid cooled cars...(Just thinking out loud)
Thats a good idea on the e-brake and plates!
PooK

B-T

10-20-2010, 11:08 AM

It is a detail but the ebrake should be pushed to one side as much as possible. This will allow for the use of the space adjacent to it as an armrest, or other storage. This console looks brilliant!
First try WINNER I say!!!
:awais:
BT

pook

10-20-2010, 11:17 AM

Arm rest? cup holders? do you guys know how fast this car will be? You'll be there before you need to rest or get thirsty:coolnana:
PooK

Gage

10-20-2010, 11:23 AM

Cup holders don't compute for me. I can't even see them. Its an Exocar afterall. What is this "arm rest" thing you speak of?

pook

10-20-2010, 11:29 AM

Cup holders don't compute for me. I can't even see them. Its an Exocar afterall. What is this "arm rest" thing you speak of?

I'm with Gage! Thats where my boost control, brake bias valve, fire bottle pull would all sit!
PooK

TLRracer

10-20-2010, 11:32 AM

Love the console!
Could it be tilted towards the driver a little bit - would make it very fighter pilot-esque.

Cup holders - yes, need to hydrate.

roadrunner76

10-20-2010, 11:58 AM

Here's another cup holder option. It could be painted to match the car. :D

Gage

10-20-2010, 11:58 AM

Just remember fellow spectators, that the number of interior items and cup holders multiplied by 2, usually equals the additional cost in multiple thousands of dollars of a project like this to the end buyer.

Of course I'm making up crap, but you know what I mean.

B-T

10-20-2010, 12:42 PM

We have a special 6 cupholder version in the wings. Gotta pay for all this stuff somewhere along the line!
Armrests aren't necessary but they are nice! I have none in the Ginetta, and my brother has some in his Ginetta. On an 1800 mile ride they sure seem like a great idea!

Tunes are a must also. Good sounds from the exhaust are complimented by good tunes!

:)
BT

thebionicman

10-20-2010, 02:09 PM

It looks good to me, actually REALLY GOOD!! Making me rethink some stuff. BT might be getting an email from me. I think the standard speedometer might be a cleaner fit than what I was originally going for.

Off topic but fiberglass related. I was at a customer of mine today and saw how they make fiberglass booms for utility trucks, really sweet!!!

pook

10-20-2010, 03:03 PM

Here's another cup holder option. It could be painted to match the car. :D

I love this Idea Roadrunner76! If they only had a hat with an intercooler on it!!!
PooK

martkat

10-20-2010, 07:22 PM

I like it all, even the (small) armrest idea. This car for me will be 90% street driven.

I'm only about 1.5 hours from the twisty north Georgia mountain roads, but that's 3 hours of non-twisty, boring straight roads to get there and return back home. Armrest, beverage and tunes will certainly be appreciated.

I am not sure how much junk will need to fit in that console; let's see ECU, marine stereo head unit/amp, fuse panel, circulation fan, possible piggyback ECU - it's gonna be full!

The look of it all is fine, even two cup holders.

pook

10-22-2010, 04:52 PM

martkat

10-22-2010, 05:14 PM

As I watch the scrolling images of other exocars shown at the top of this site, some cars have the hood above the fender/wheel line, but some don't too (like Rush, Deronda and Sonic7).

I could really go either way but there's something about having the hood below the wheel line that really makes it seem more racy and aggressive (at least to me).

You know the thing has to have a low roll center when the hood is lower than the tops of the wheels!!!

Karlo

10-22-2010, 05:36 PM

martkat

10-22-2010, 05:47 PM

Danny

Can you have someone sit in the car for hood and tire / fender reference?

Ya, like me - with Bill's motor installed and running; car ready to hit the road. Then I'll tell ya if the hood is too high or not as I carve a few corners.

martkat

10-22-2010, 05:53 PM

B-T

10-22-2010, 07:20 PM

OK, I hope to get the hood cut in this weekend and start shaping the nose.

Ignoring the nose (Its just blocks of foam glued before I start sanding)

My question is: Do you think 26" off the ground is to low for the top of the hood? It will be lower than the fenders?

Thoughts?
PooK

My thoughts are that the lower the better generally speaking. 26" is not too low. The top of the bodywork (except for the windshield) on my Ginetta is about 29" and that looks good to me. I think the opportunity is there for having some bright coloration on the higher roll hoops to add visibility for other drivers.

Everything that gets added (even in foam) makes this car look better to me. I think the overall design is an A+ !!! The forward leaning front end matches up with the roll hoops and also gives it that Mako look. I am really excited to see this thing in the flesh next week. It is hard to guess what the overall size / feel is from computer pictures.

Keep on keepin' on. Everything you are doing looks awesome to me.
:thumb2:
BT

B-T

10-22-2010, 07:22 PM

Oh, also the wing looks great.
:)
BT

Karlo

10-22-2010, 07:46 PM

In the flesh BT?

B-T

10-22-2010, 07:52 PM

Yes. I should be at MWH (Matrix World Headquarters) either Tuesday or Thursday, whichever is projected to be a rainy day.

The other days that I will be travelling I will just be driving around the mountains in the Ginetta. I am loaded up and ready to roll in about 7 hours.

WOOT!
:clap:
BT

Karlo

10-22-2010, 10:39 PM

16 hours of driving with no top!!! You are hardcore BT!

Alanstrike

10-23-2010, 12:01 AM

Hi
Too low no way looks racier - my trike is low and looks great IMHO - has been recieving fantastic feedback everywhere we go - yours will too...
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx342/AlanLehmann/Makorear.jpg
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx342/AlanLehmann/Makowithclubbie.jpg
Alan

Alanstrike

10-23-2010, 12:04 AM

Please excuse temporary nose will post glass nose soon its 26" high as well - Alan

Gage

10-23-2010, 06:17 AM

pook

10-23-2010, 06:34 AM

Thoughts? At this angle that wing looks great. Too bad it will be smack in the middle of the scoop for the Suby intercooler. But if I had to choose, it'll be the scoop cause it will look cool too AND add P-O-W-E-R

Wellll maybe not.

There is a problem :( The scoop will not work behind a windshield. There is that little issue of low pressure created behind the windshield, cohesion of air molecules, etc... sucking all that air OUT of the scoop:awais:

The same way our floor pan will generate down force, the windshield will try to generate a type of forward force.

Or reduced again to it simplest form It's why your hair blows forward in a convertible.

The scoop or ducting will need to be out of this area to work. Either further back, WAY up, or even on the side.

This maybe? but larger? Its screaming for something in that area anyway?
PooK

martkat

10-23-2010, 07:20 AM

Hmmm, good point, forgot all about the windshield. I've kept my hair buzzed so low for the past 10 years that I never had the experience of front swept hair when driving the convertibles I've had - so again, good point.

It'll be interesting to see your ideas/creativity on the TMIC scoop.

I keep eyeballing that wing as I'd not seen it at that angle, especially with the added body work. I just may have to add it to the build.

roadrunner76

10-23-2010, 07:22 AM

martkat

10-23-2010, 07:41 AM

The nose and rear wing look awesome. Do you have a feel for what the front bumper will look like on the street version?

I like the side scoop idea. Balances the lower scoops and will not interfere with a convertible top.

Keep up the great work!!

Other than the nose section, there isn't going to be a bumper so to speak, that is nothing like what came on the Plymouth Prowler.

4308

I also don't see how you will have any sort of top between the windshield and the roll hoops, unless you and Danny have already worked out those details in side conversations.

roadrunner76

10-23-2010, 08:31 AM

Other than the nose section, there isn't going to be a bumper so to speak, that is nothing like what came on the Plymouth Prowler.

In Michigan (where I live) a bumper is required for road use vehicles. It has to be 14-22 inches off the ground. I believe the wheels are 18 inches in diameter. This plus looking at the picture indicates the tip of the nose is about 10-12 inches off the ground. So, something will need to be done to make it street legal. I have discussed this requirement with Danny. Now that the nose is being worked on I was curious if he's got something in mind.

I also don't see how you will have any sort of top between the windshield and the roll hoops, unless you and Danny have already worked out those details in side conversations.

I have an idea on how to accomplish this. I was going to wait until Danny started working on the windshield to discuss it. I believe B-T has also expressed an interest in a top so I think it's on their radar.

martkat

10-23-2010, 09:20 AM

Interesting. It never ceases to amaze me how the street legal requirements vary from state to state. The county where I live in GA requires my car to be emission legal, which prevents my using the Type 4 motor or an old school V8.

Maybe Danny could fab you up bumpers like on the Plymouth Prowler or maybe a front tube set up in front of the nose somewhere.

The sand rail frame builder I was planning to use prior to finding the TR-42 was located in Hart, MI. Here is a picture of the Sand Tiger frame (with off road suspension) that was registered for street use. Guess that little bit of tube nose qualifies as a bumper?

4309

roadrunner76

10-23-2010, 10:08 AM

Maybe Danny could fab you up bumpers like on the Plymouth Prowler or maybe a front tube set up in front of the nose somewhere.

That's what I was thinking.

Guess that little bit of tube nose qualifies as a bumper?

That plus the height would be my guess.

Gage

10-23-2010, 10:09 AM

No manufacturer can afford to build a car that meets every states requirements for road legality. Case in point, the Ariel Atom. There are a number of states where the car will never be registered as a road legal vehicle because of numerous requirements and restrictions that would turn the Exocar into a... Car.

Creative individuals in certain states have found a way around that anyway.

My real point is, the Exocar that is road legal everywhere would look like a Toyota Camry. An Exocar will never happen in a dozen or so states.

But the far safer two wheeled motor cycle platform.... (Rolling my eyes).

roadrunner76

10-23-2010, 10:36 AM

Danny:

I have design concept for the windshield/removable top configuration. See attached. Feel free to use, modify or line a bird cage with it. :D

pook

10-23-2010, 11:23 AM

pook

10-23-2010, 11:26 AM

want to go one more? snap in another piece and you get an Exo with an extended driving season....?
PooK

pook

10-23-2010, 11:33 AM

The Mako has a bumper (every car Ive built has one) It's 15 inches tall and under the bumper cover/nose (like everything built today)

Does it have to come out to the wheels?

PooK

martkat

10-23-2010, 12:32 PM

Looks as much as a bumper as that Sand Tiger frame's bumper (which was registered for street use in MI).

africanstyle

10-23-2010, 01:12 PM

No problems just solutions:thumb2:
By adding a small section of body work just above the main tube you get a piece to install snaps (like they do with a kit car convertible top)
Then at the top of the hoops the braces bolt on and that makes a very nice place to bolt in a top support.?
(again its just a flat piece of foam to show my thoughts so look past the ugly)
PooK

May I just say that if you produce a car looking like this (but of course finished with paint, etc.) you will have made the best looking exo on the market. I think that it would be beneficial to worry about other body work later. As far as a windshield is concerned, I honestly think that the only way one could look good on this or any exocar is with a SERIOUS rake angle. Otherwise, car looks fantastic.

Gage

10-23-2010, 01:20 PM

I also agree with Africanstyle that this will probably be one of the best looking Exocars on the market if it continues along these lines. Ditto as well on afstyle's comment on the rake angle on the windshield.

I would opt for no windshield and take a very effective air ram into the intercooler in the center hoop position. I do not believe that the proposed side scoops will provide enough cooling. But I'm no aerodynamics expert or engineer. I hope it does work through the side scoops if that is the only option left.

roadrunner76

10-23-2010, 02:05 PM

The Mako has a bumper (every car Ive built has one) It's 15 inches tall and under the bumper cover/nose (like everything built today)

Does it have to come out to the wheels?

PooK

I'm not sure. My guess is no based on the street legal sand rail pic that martkat posted. I'll try to find out.

cordycord

10-23-2010, 03:58 PM

Danny,

GREAT job on the car. It seems like you've built a beautiful "form follows function" frame, and now the bodywork that you're adding is just organically, naturally growing from the frame. Your original choice to go simple and pure with this car needs to continue with anything you add, IMO.

As for intercoolers, I first want to keep the distance from the turbo to the inlet as short as possible. Other than that, I really like Gake's idea of water/methanol injection...after the car's been dialed in. Liquid to liquid heat exchangers are FAR more efficient than air/liquid, but require all that extra hardware--methanol is easy, and creates even more efficiency in the engine.

Keep it up!

pook

10-23-2010, 04:00 PM

Thank you guy's!!!:)

I'm not sure I can gather enough to be effective either, but could we use it to supplement a scoop that lays on top of the cooler?

Do the WRX guy's change the hood scoop when they run the larger cooler? if so is there a pic or a spec I can get?

Its not that we cant get air from above the cooler, just not right behind the roll bar.

The windshield is a bolt on option thing and not part of the race car, so a Big A$$ scoop would work perfect for a track version.

BTW, the pics are black and white so we can see the body work and not all the background noise and different color foam.
PooK

martkat

10-23-2010, 06:26 PM

A lot of Suby guys run the same factory hood scoop even after upgrading their TMIC. The next step for most is to move to a FMIC for more airflow and to remove heat soak from the engine.

Hey, just a thought; what about mounting a pusher style radiator fan on top of the intercooler. Your scoop could then be just an opening through which the air would be pulled into, allowing the scoop to stay placed between the hoops. Then for those not using a windshield, they could just run the same setup without a fan.

4319

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/UNIVERSAL-10-ELECTRIC-RADIATOR-COOLING-FAN-Slim-Thin-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem20ace5f078QQitemZ14033 9703928QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries

Maybe you could design the base of the scoop to clear this fan. A 9" fan is also available if the 10" is too big.

Marty

Steve Jarvis

10-25-2010, 05:25 AM

Typically a fan will just become a restriction at highway speeds.

I would estimate that an area 50% the size of the intercooler would be more than large enough as a scoop to supply the needed airflow. Keep in mind that your scoop only needs to take in the amount of air that will flow through the interlcooler. A significant portion of the intercoolers surface area is blocked off by the bars and fins.

Later, Steve

martkat

10-25-2010, 05:45 AM

Typically a fan will just become a restriction at highway speeds.

Unless you have a windshield that is creating negative air flow to the scoop; then the windshield is the restriction at highway speeds.

Maybe the scoops could come out laterally from the intercooler on both sides to capture air between the frame tube and the rear wheels.

Steve Jarvis

10-25-2010, 06:17 AM

It could easily be measured with a wind speed meter mounted in the intake duct. Make the duct and then mount the windshield and see how the windspeed changes.

I think we will find that there will be plenty of airflow even with a windshield by simply playing with the height and angle of the windshield.

Of course adding a top will be a whole different challenge. :) Can we say roof scoop. :)

Later, Steve

pook

10-25-2010, 07:22 AM

This is true. I wonder how far up the windshield needs to be to be effective?
The guy sitting in the car is just under 6'3" My head at 5'10 is level with the back of the seat. thats a whole lot of difference.
PooK

pook

10-25-2010, 07:35 AM

OHHHH, I want these headlights! Form the Nissan Juke.
PooK

roadrunner76

10-25-2010, 07:46 AM

Ok, this might sound a bit crazy but I thought I'd throw it out there. Could you create a u-shaped notch in the top of the windshield at the center to allow the air to bypass the windshield in the scoop flow zone.

This might pose a bit of a problem for the top. Worst case scenario would be to have the top conform to the notch and scoop geometries thereby creating an air channel in the top. If the notch protrudes down into the cockpit too much, the top might obstruct the view between driver and passenger. This might be a benefit depending on who your passenger is. :D

Steve Jarvis

10-25-2010, 08:20 AM

Keep in mind the air will flow up the windshield and then flow in the shape of a "C" typically hitting the driver in the back of the head.

Also keep in mind that the drivers seat will never be that far back if the steering wheel is in the correct location. That driver is 6'3" and his arms aren't bent at all.

If the windshield is designed correctly, the air will flow up and over the drivers head curving down ward and into the air intake. Of course this will only happen exactly like this at a specific speed. :(

I would fab up a windshield with adjustable rake, mount an air-speed meter between the roll bars and drive up the road. Adjust the angle until you get the correct compromise between wind speed into the intake and a comfortable cabin at different speeds. Trial and error typically trumps theory everytime. Or maybe it simply proves that theory is correct. :)

Later, Steve

pook

10-25-2010, 08:54 AM

See thats why I like this forum, good info!
Steve, You are right and I didn't think of it till you brought it up, Its not the area of the intercooler that matters, its the area of what can flow between the bars/tubes, When Erik's gets here Ill do some measurements.
PooK

pook

10-29-2010, 09:28 AM

OK, Ive met with Bill this week and can say that the windshield will (or should) have an adjustable rake:D
Bills plan is a turnbuckle style adjuster system so it can be removed, installed, and set to your comfort level.
I'm on that and other things we discussed as I type...Hopefully I can get enough mocked up to show in the next week.
PooK

martkat

10-29-2010, 12:37 PM

Any chance of me getting a peek into the shop on Tue or Wed?

roadrunner76

10-29-2010, 12:49 PM

The Mako has a bumper (every car Ive built has one) It's 15 inches tall and under the bumper cover/nose (like everything built today)

Does it have to come out to the wheels?

PooK

I called the Michigan State Police to inquire about the bumper requirement. Rather than answering my questions they referred me to their website. After some searching I found the MI motor vehicle code that is referenced on the vehicle inspection form I sent you. Here is the only bumper specific information in the code:

Sec. 710c. (1) A person shall not operate a motor vehicle on a public highway or street of this state unless the vehicle is equipped with a bumper or other energy absorption system with an analogous function which
bumper or system is securely bolted or permanently attached on both the front and rear of the vehicle. The bumper or energy absorption system shall be maintained in good operational condition, except as provided in
subsection (5).

No mention of having to be as wide as the vehicle. To be sure, I think I will bring some pictures of a completely built vehicle to the local police post and ask them if it meets the requirements. At that time I can also discuss the other add-ons I will need such as the windshield to make sure I will be able to get it registered.

pook

10-29-2010, 01:13 PM

Any chance of me getting a peek into the shop on Tue or Wed?

If you want to call or stop in the lex shop then we could maybe find a time to go up to the Richmond shop? that way you could look over a near finished Exo before you see a lot of foam and fiberglass, Because right now it ain't pretty! Its the nuts and bolts part of the tooling process :(
PooK

pook

10-29-2010, 01:20 PM

What day would be better Marty, Tues or Wed I may be able to take off a bit early
PooK

martkat

10-29-2010, 03:59 PM

Tuesday would be better

pook

10-29-2010, 05:22 PM

That shouldnt be a problem, If we can do it near the end of the work day maybe meet in lex then I could take off and you follow me to Matrix?
LMK so I can warn my boss.
PooK

thebionicman

10-29-2010, 05:45 PM

So how does Tuesday November 23 after work? I'll be driving down from Hagerstown, IN.

martkat

10-29-2010, 06:30 PM

That shouldnt be a problem, If we can do it near the end of the work day maybe meet in lex then I could take off and you follow me to Matrix?
LMK so I can warn my boss.
PooK

Sounds good. What time should I come to the shop in Lex on Tue?

pook

10-29-2010, 07:30 PM

before 5:00, maybe 3:30/4:00/4:30? you decide.
Looking forward to meeting you!
PooK

pook

10-29-2010, 07:32 PM

So how does Tuesday November 23 after work? I'll be driving down from Hagerstown, IN.

Sounds fine to me:thumb2:
PooK

martkat

10-30-2010, 06:30 PM

before 5:00, maybe 3:30/4:00/4:30? you decide.
Looking forward to meeting you!
PooK

Be there @ 3:30

pook

10-31-2010, 11:32 AM

Ill have the shark under glass please:thumb2:

A nice heavy first layer of e-glass is down! This is soooo much fun:D

The front splitter mount is being built so that we can swap splitters for wings, etc...Its also much cheaper if someone curbs one out.

Not terribly exciting stuff but progress nonetheless...

PooK

B-T

10-31-2010, 12:45 PM

I think it is exciting!!!

Glass on Pook!!!

:thumb2:
BT

martkat

10-31-2010, 04:58 PM

Wonder where those headlights will mount. Can't wait to see how the front finishes out with hood, lights, splitter, chrome double air horns.

B-T

11-01-2010, 07:09 AM

On the shop visit last week we looked at the lighting, exhaust, and many other aspects of the design. Here are the results:

The headlights I had selected while appearing small on the car they are designed for are actually too large. We will be going to a small bullet type headlight. The location will be on an arm mount approximately at the front of the tire. the new headlight is 4.5" diameterand includes 55/60w low and high beams as well as a 5W running light.

The mirrors while small look good to me, and we will be staying with the F1 style mirrors.

The tailights I had selected which appeared to work with the rear tube radius bends are simply too large / bulky and will be replaced with round LED tail light units.

The fenders radius is a bit larger than we had hoped for (I will have about a 1" gap between the fender and tire), but we will see if they look good cut down and mounted. The standard tires have an 8" tread so the fenders cover well. I think they will work for the 235 tires Marty has, and the 255 tires will only expose a small amount of tread if the standard fenders are used.

The carbon fiber exhaust system that I had selected looks good, but again is too large for the vehicle, so I will be selecting something much slimmer.

I am just putting together an email to Danny to confirm the replacement selections. Once I get an okay back I will post up what the new selections are. The basic plan is to keep the ancillary items small so they don't take away from the design of the bodywork / frame.

BT

Gage

11-01-2010, 07:23 AM

The basic plan is to keep the ancillary items small so they don't take away from the design of the bodywork / frame.

BT

When Atom owners replace stock mirrors, lights, tail lights, etc. they follow the same trend. Smaller more stream lined accessory parts impact the entire image of an Exocar in a very positive way.

thebionicman

11-01-2010, 02:01 PM

Those all sound good to me! I would imagine a car this small really needs the visual reference to size things.

martkat

11-01-2010, 03:16 PM

I had done tons of searching for lights for my rail buggy build and had ended up close to the decision you're making as far as size goes. My guess is that your finds will look cooler and be cheaper, since you're the deal getter.

4" Headlights - 60/55 - $268/pair
4345

LED mini tail/brake/turn - $60/pair - planned for 2 pairs
4346

LED mini turn - $60/pair - one pair
4347

pook

11-02-2010, 04:59 AM

I'm with you Martkat, I love the little bullet tails, BT is worried they are to small.

I do think these items make or break a design however and don't want the dune buggy look for this car, but the good looking lights are sooooo expensive I see BT's side as well.

PooK

B-T

11-02-2010, 05:36 AM

I just think that the mini brake / turn lights will raise a flag with the local police and also believe that drivers following these cars will misjudge the distance that they are following so I think that the 4" LED's (like on SteveW's car) are the way to go. Here is a pic of the new headlights:

We can design the car for post mount tail lights and allow people to choose which style they prefer that way.

:)
BT

martkat

11-02-2010, 05:58 AM

I had also found these as an option. It would require two at $50ea

A true surface mount LED taillight or 3rd brake light. The unit measures 1-3/16 wide” x 15-3/8” long and stands 11/16” tall off the surface. 10 Super Bright LED’s are wired for all three functions to use as a taillight (2 required) or it can be used as a 3rd brake light only. This light meets all SAE/DOT requirements. Black stainless steel mounting screws included.

4353

pook

11-02-2010, 06:38 AM

Ive bought lights from these guys they were nice! The tails I bought were green until they came on then they turned red:D..
Its was uber cool (to use BT words)
PooK
http://www.spoilerlights.com/servlet/StoreFront

roadrunner76

11-02-2010, 06:54 AM

Here are some other lights that might work. I don't know about the illumination pattern/angle or what would be needed for high beams. I found them on http://www.buyautotruckaccessories.com/categories.cfm/cf-bin/cn.driving-lights/gid.101005003/ and thought they looked cool. The Hella light has a paintable housing.

pook

11-02-2010, 07:13 AM

Those Hella's are cool! and they make a hella va light!
I had a set of Pilots on a bike and after they got hot it softened the glue and the lens fell out...maybe just a bad batch? or maybe a cheap light?
PooK

martkat

11-02-2010, 08:05 AM

Gotta make sure of DOT compliance.

B-T

11-02-2010, 08:49 AM

From what I have read most states and inspectors will ask you to turn on the running lights, the low beams, then the high beams. Then they check to make sure you have a high beam indicator on the dash (we do). The lights I am going to order offer all these functions. The motorcycle lights do not have DOT stamps, but none of the euro import kit cars do either and they get registered everywhere. If someone is tough we can always go to 7" DOT lights (standard replacement lights from around 1950-1980ish) and get by that way. I think they look way too big so I am going with the smaller lights that offer all the required DOT functions. The rear lights and side markers are all DOT approved. Too bad trailers do not have headlights!
:)
BT

Alanstrike

11-02-2010, 05:11 PM

In Aust we must have compliant lights - many use this unit on clubmans etc ( and my trike ) with a standard semi sealed insert and H4 bulb and a good halogen bulb - works great and can take a knock with out losing alignment and its cheap ...

Narva

http://www.narva.com.au/products/search?search=work+lamps&totalrecs=55&pageno=2
Part No./Description
72444
Rubber Body Work Lamp
12 Volt 60W Sealed Flood Beam
Features: unique heavy-duty rubber body that protects the sealed beam from external shock, vibration and damage. Can be upright or pendant mounted

martkat

11-02-2010, 08:10 PM

Danny - These are priced B-T style at $45ea. Can you blast off the chrome and powder coat? Small 4" headlight

H4 55/60 with daytime running light
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/whitespitstop_2128_880195131

pook

11-03-2010, 07:09 AM

I can zap the chrome down no problem, the powder coated could also If you find a style you like that we don't have. Bill is on a quest now to solve our DOT problems so lets see what he comes up with.
BTW, It was great to meet with you finally Marty!!!
PooK

B-T

11-03-2010, 08:26 AM

These are 4.2" chromed (that could obviously be cleaned off) that claim to be DOT approved.
http://www.retrocycle.com/CustomChromeSku/600088/Custom_Billet_Headlights_by_DNA.html

These Matte black ones have the DOT functions, I have an email asking them if they are also DOT approved, but they are 5.75"
http://www.jpcycles.com/product/310-475?N=275067&Ntt=55%2F60&Ntk=All&Ns=Non Gold Price|0&results=100

The Wave which is used on some other cars is an option, but not DOT stamped (see picture).

So the short story is that if you want DOT stamps on the lenses you have to go to a really bulky newer car assembly replacement (we looked at that and it is just too big for this little car), go with a 7" light for inspections, or go with a smaller or more stylish unit that has all the DOT functionality without the DOT stamps. In FL the smaller units without the DOT stamps will work for me, so the proto will be finished that way.

:)
BT

roadrunner76

11-03-2010, 09:36 AM

I like the Wave light!!

pook

11-03-2010, 10:07 AM

ME 2!
PooK

B-T

11-03-2010, 11:16 AM

One thing to consider is the integration of the turn signal and its design. For me the round headlight works better with an adjacent turn signal stalk approximately even with the bottom of the round housing. On the rear I like the four bullet design (inside red lights for running and brake, outside amber for signals).
The silver / aluminum look works with the suspension arms, etc...

The wave is cool, but it is used in a few other designs and I want to have a sort of modern "7" look.
:)
BT

pook

11-03-2010, 11:31 AM

"Modern 7" That sounds to me like hi fi 8 track...LOL
I think this is going to be like sneakers.....

do you have a link BT?

PooK

Alanstrike

11-03-2010, 04:39 PM

Hi just check if the lights are DOT approved for cars not motorcycles in Aus the cant cross use - may be diff in USA . Alan

pook

11-06-2010, 04:41 PM

OK, Ive been sanding away and need to line out a few things to continue.
In the first pic is the location right above the fill neck on the fuel tank.
I would recess it just enough to not stick above the body.
The second and third pics are neck type's I like...Thoughts?

PooK

B-T

11-06-2010, 04:44 PM

I will send you some gas cap info I found tomorrow AM.
There are some that don't require a key and include a vent connection with a nice chrome (or black if preferred) finish. I like both caps you show if they will work with the modern gas pumps (do they need to suck out the vent gasses?).
:)
BT

pook

11-06-2010, 04:57 PM

If you mean vented? I will have to check.
They are here under hot rod parts
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Stainless-Steel-Fuel-Fill,5854.html

PooK

martkat

11-06-2010, 05:47 PM

Either style looks good along with placement. I'd say to make sure you can get a black cap but I'm in a different boat here because of the crapola GA emission requirements. I'll have to work in a factory style fill neck/cap so that the cap can be tested for emissions.

Unless . . . I could go with your setup and then just switch out to the factory style fill neck and cap for the emission inspection each year and then switch back to yours afterwards.

That'd be a pain but I'm certain that I don't want to be sportin a factory ratchety/clicking cap sitting right on top of that beautiful hood.

pook

11-06-2010, 05:56 PM

Maybe then just a flip up door and a cap under?

PooK

martkat

11-06-2010, 06:24 PM

That's fine if you can pookify it so it looks good

AZDave

11-07-2010, 01:48 AM

We use the same filler necks on our boats. Just don't forget to attach the tool to your keychain :)

Cant tell you how many times we got to the filling station and ... well you know. At least at the Marina someone always has one you can use, but never at the filling station.

Nice pieces though BTW (quality hardware)

B-T

11-07-2010, 05:42 AM

I had considered this to be a good solution since it incorporates a vent line and does not require a key. I think the mounting of the one Danny posted (the marine type) is better, and having a key for it on the keychain or in the car is not a problem to me. I don't really understand how the venting of the gas tank works on the prototype, but I'm sure Danny has a plan for it.

We can cut and weld a standard filler neck with the vent and restrictor for unleaded fuel to this to satisfy the inspectors. That way it can be a permanent installation that should meet the requirements. I don't think the marine cap is vented, so it will still be a sealed system as required. Does the gas cap have to 'click' for the inspector? If so, maybe we can figure out some way to have a threaded filler neck and cap that can just replace the chrome one for inspected locations.
:)
BT

pook

11-07-2010, 08:02 AM

OK, without getting to in depth, If your state has emission testing then what I need is the EVAP parts from your donor car.
The Charcoal canister, the purge valve, the evap valve, and the sensor that is in the fuel tank (vac sensor) and with the Suby guys the fuel temp sensor.

Not all caps "click" MB for example does not.

So while I don't know what they "eyeball" in your State?
If there is a code stored for EVAP leak you will be sent home.:(

In my State an old sock in the filler neck is fine, In CA they shoot on site and there is everything in between.

To be legal (and we all should) I can piggy back the evap system to the tank and weld in the proper fittings, I can test the evap for integrity (I do this stuff for a living....for now any way:thumb2:)

As for the venting its done through the purge and not through the cap, there is a valve in most caps but it acts more like a radiator cap and cant leak till the vac or press is out of bounds.

On carbureted cars they sell a check valve that will stop the tank from being crushed

I Want these cars to be as trouble free for you guys as I can...So we'll make it work what ever it takes:thumb2:

PooK

martkat

11-07-2010, 08:46 AM

I'll ask my Suby guy this week to pull me the tank stuff needed. For tank emission inspections in GA all they do is take your cap, hook it to their machine and check to see if it passes.

martkat

11-07-2010, 01:11 PM

Danny - These are priced B-T style at $45ea. Can you blast off the chrome and powder coat? Small 4" headlight

H4 55/60 with daytime running light
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/whitespitstop_2128_880195131

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Never hurts to keep looking. A bit more expensive than the chrome ones above but these black ones below are even smaller (3.5") and I wouldn't have to go to the trouble of blasting off the chrome and powder coating black.

60/55 Watt - no daytime lights - e stamped but no DOT stamp // $75ea

4435

4436

pook

11-07-2010, 02:48 PM

I'll ask my Suby guy this week to pull me the tank stuff needed. For tank emission inspections in GA all they do is take your cap, hook it to their machine and check to see if it passes.

Then their just making sure your cap doesn't vent to atmosphere.

I wish you guys could see the profile the way I do because the camera doesn't do it justice now that I can see it in one color instead of foam :D

PooK

pook

11-07-2010, 02:57 PM

Ive been playing with splitters, spoilers, and wings for the nose.
The way I designed the base of the nose should allow us to switch back and forth depending on what your doing with the car...Kind of the Swiss Army knife of mounts.
The pic just shows one style and its ugly :((I'm still tinkering) but it should give an idea of how the mount works.
My thought was to get the a-arm out of the wind and send the air to the brake rotor?

PooK

B-T

11-07-2010, 03:04 PM

Looking slick! The lines of the main tube frames show really well in that last pic two posts up.
:clap:
BT

B-T

11-07-2010, 03:08 PM

I think we can shape a splitter out of star board if the fiberglass gets easily damaged. It is nearly indestructible, not too expensive, and probalby could be shaped with a little selective heat applied.

Aluminum splitters are a good option also, and can be shaped with the metal brake. I think the fiberglass piece looks okay, but I think an aluminum pice that is turned up on the edges as a kind of canard would be more attractive and easier to make. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelers (as my nephew says), but that is just one guy's opinion.

:)
BT

pook

11-07-2010, 03:10 PM

I like it.
Now if I could just get some heat in the building the stuff might dry:(

PooK

thebionicman

11-07-2010, 03:11 PM

Looks like a decent size radiator can be stuffed up into the nose.

pook

11-07-2010, 03:14 PM

Looks like a decent size radiator can be stuffed up into the nose.

Yep, I made it larger than the Busa so our choices should be better.
PooK

martkat

11-07-2010, 03:17 PM

"Looks like a decent size radiator can be stuffed up into the nose"

My thoughts too.

Erik - I'm doing research on aftermarket oil coolers that will sandwich mount at the oil filter. Several out there. You can see what I mean under classifieds at nasioc.com

My thoughts are that the front radiator combined with a good oil cooler may be enough cooling to eliminate the need for a second rear mounted radiator.

These oil coolers seem to lower oil temps by about 30 degrees, which should help the radiator keep the motor cool.

pook

11-07-2010, 03:48 PM

I don't want to hurt anyone's feelers (as my nephew says), but that is just one guy's opinion.

:)
BT

I'm good with ideas! Draw something up and Ill give it a shot:thumb2:
BTW what is "Star board"? I like the alum idea also I just didnt have any that would work here to play with....I will get some soon.

PooK

B-T

11-07-2010, 04:00 PM

thebionicman

11-07-2010, 04:03 PM

thebionicman

11-07-2010, 04:07 PM

Marty are you thinking something like this mounted to one of the side ducts.

http://www.mishimoto.com/mishimoto-universal-oil-cooler-kit.html

martkat

11-07-2010, 04:26 PM

Marty are you thinking something like this mounted to one of the side ducts.

http://www.mishimoto.com/mishimoto-universal-oil-cooler-kit.html

Exactly, found a few that had been bought but never installed; cheapest so far is $140

pook

11-07-2010, 04:30 PM

martkat

11-07-2010, 04:33 PM

OH, Cool! lets get some and try!
PooK

I'll have mine done in black please. Wonder if you just leave it as is after shaping or if it would need paint (if you didn't want it black or white)?

B-T

11-07-2010, 05:00 PM

I have read it can not be painted. If everyone is good with the part being through color black I will get some sent over to try it out. If people definitely want to have it various colors it will need to be fiberglass or aluminum.

I'm good with having it in black star board. It is a really durable product in my experience. If you shape it into a wing you can probably use the projecting part as a step without fear of damage.
:)
BT

thebionicman

11-07-2010, 05:12 PM

Black is good for me. That stuff is pretty sweet. Most of the guys at the track use this or the honeycomb stuff for a splitter (or plywood).

jmarsa

11-07-2010, 05:25 PM

Star Board is a marine plastic that is just about indestructible. It is availalbe in sheets of varying thickness from 1/4" up to about 1". I used some to make the engine mount block for the little R/C boats. Easy to drill, cut, and route. I have not tried bending any, but it would require heating the board up to soften it a little. It would make a great skid plate material. It is available commonly in either black or white.

Some info here:
http://www.customcreativeplastics.com/spgm.cfm?dpt=H&srch=30&item=SB20&gclid=CN6y8pzzj6UCFYdc2godwSSPMQ
A movie demonstrating the thermo forming process is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNnt6UYCskE
:)
BT

I've worked with this stuff in full size boats and what BT says is true, but it's not stiff enough (insert Michael Scott reference here) in my opinion for the forces that will be created.

I looked at the manufactures website (http://www.kingplastic.com/Products/_StarboardFamily.aspx) and it states in this PDF: http://www.kingplastic.com/CMS/Media/Docs/StarBoard-sell-sheet.pdf

That the:

Tensile Strength (PSI) according to ASTM D638 = 4,100
Flexural Modulus (PSI) according to ASTM D790 = 180,000

a nylon washer has ASTM D638 = 12,000
and a ASTM D790 = 410,000

(I pulled the nylon stats from here: http://www.washersusa.com/materials.html)

No I'm not an engineer, that's why I posted the sources, cause most people make claims that they cannot back-up. Anyway I hope this helps in some way.

--JMarsa

pook

11-11-2010, 05:48 AM

What about Steve's Busa headlights?
What did the cost Steve? They do have the E stamp.
PooK

martkat

11-11-2010, 06:06 AM

Very cool. What are the specs 55/60? 55/65 H9? Cost?

Looks like a projector style housing that may just hold a halogen bulb?

Me wants to know more!

Maybe it's just a housing that holds this type of Hella light (#009998021) I found?

4463

stevew

11-11-2010, 06:45 AM

martkat

11-11-2010, 06:49 AM

I'll check them out. The Hella's above are $275/pair with H9 bulbs and that's without a housing or mount system.

pook

11-11-2010, 07:30 AM

Question: Can a guy take a DOT legal headlamp with projectors inside and a DOT clear lens (almost every car made now) cut them apart and use all the DOT legal parts to make a new design?
PooK

B-T

11-11-2010, 07:44 AM

No. The assembly is DOT certified. The DOT stamp is on the clear lens normally. The DOT certification is a function of both having all the required light wattages (55/60/running light) as well as the specific light dispersion pattern. The E stamp is for the european spec light dispersion pattern which does not light up the road signs or have the glare cutoffs required by DOT.
:)
BT

pook

11-11-2010, 07:53 AM

OH:( was just wondering why its so tough to find cool legal lights.
You back BT?
PooK

pook

11-11-2010, 07:57 AM

different? not cheap? but legal
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Harley-Chrome-Billet-Phantom-Headlight-DOT-Certified-/370454395344?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5640cd79d0

Alanstrike

11-11-2010, 04:13 PM

Hi from Aust - Number plate lights ..
saw these on ebay look good has anyone seen / used them - do they work ??
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LED-License-Plate-LightsYamaha-YZF-R1-R6-R6S-FJR-FZR-S-/280580157688?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4153e170f8
Alan

B-T

11-11-2010, 04:50 PM

OH:( was just wondering why its so tough to find cool legal lights.
You back BT?
PooK

No, not back yet. I have a court hearing tomorrow (wish me luck!), then I fly home on Saturday night. They are tough to find because the market is too small for a company to go through an expensive approval process to sell a few units.
:)
BT

B-T

11-11-2010, 04:51 PM

pook

11-11-2010, 05:48 PM

They are tough to find because the market is too small for a company to go through an expensive approval process to sell a few units.
:)
BT

Well that just wont do.
Then I shall make my own and start with a small DOT SAE legal H4351! It was used in like 1 car I think, but they still make the lamp and its only 2.25" tall and just over 4" wide.
PooK

martkat

11-11-2010, 06:49 PM

Whatcha thinkin?

martkat

11-11-2010, 07:36 PM

4465

After digging some more look what I discovered -

Buy them here @ $146.15ea
http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=4924

Size comparison Buell Firebolt vs Hella
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v329/Greg_E/XB9R/headlight1-1.jpg

Size comparison Hella vs Buell Firebolt
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v329/Greg_E/XB9R/headlight2-1.jpg

And the sacred DOT stamp!!! (HL 99802)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v329/Greg_E/XB9R/headlight3.jpg

Wonder what kind of fiberglass pod would look good designed around the back half with a mounting bracket? Hmmm

thebionicman

11-11-2010, 08:00 PM

I would be game for those even if it cost a little more. I most likely would come up with my own creation in the long run anyways. I really envision this car with some type of projector headlight.

Alanstrike

11-11-2010, 08:16 PM

Hi Bill and Danny
i have sent email to BT shop drawings of both Hella units - may help you - wasn't sure how to post free free to share with forum...
Alan

Gage

11-11-2010, 08:54 PM

martkat

11-11-2010, 09:10 PM

I would be game for those even if it cost a little more. I most likely would come up with my own creation in the long run anyways. I really envision this car with some type of projector headlight.

Exactly how I feel. To me, this car is just way, way too cool for a standard style headlight. This has been the only DOT stamped projector I could find that has a hi/lo per unit. I'm game if a rear housing/mount can be simply made.

Wanna pair up on this too, like the Godspeed TMIC fab work?

pook

11-12-2010, 04:28 AM

Wanna pair up on this too, like the Godspeed TMIC fab work?

Whats your thoughts?

Are the projectors you show Marty a high/low in one unit?

PooK

thebionicman

11-12-2010, 05:07 AM

Exactly how I feel. To me, this car is just way, way too cool for a standard style headlight. This has been the only DOT stamped projector I could find that has a hi/lo per unit. I'm game if a rear housing/mount can be simply made.

Wanna pair up on this too, like the Godspeed TMIC fab work?

That sounds good to me.

Pook that unit is hi lo in one housing. Solenoid to open a flapper for hi beams.

Now if the stupid Godspeed TMIC would just ship I would be happy.

roadrunner76

11-12-2010, 05:20 AM

Wonder what kind of fiberglass pod would look good designed around the back half with a mounting bracket?

You might be able to get some custom machined aluminum housings made relatively inexpensively at a local vocational training center or community college. They might only charge for the raw material. A 3D model of the housing would probably be required for their CNC mills. I can create the model given the light dimensions, styling input, etc. Seems doable just don't know about the cost.

martkat

11-12-2010, 07:10 AM

Whats your thoughts?

Are the projectors you show Marty a high/low in one unit?

PooK

Just completed my order from Susquehanna MotorSports (610-944-3233) for -

2ea HL99802 headlights (includes H9 bulbs and adjuster screws)
2ea HL87193 H9 connectors
2ea HL80680 connectors for shutter control

Total incl UPS was $330 something

Dave at Susquehanna said they had a mounting frame available that's used for commercial bus applications (120mm square) to adjust the aim of the light when mounted onto a flat sheetmetal surface (like the front of a bus). Not a good option for our application.

Our mount system will need to provide a method to adjust the aim of the lights (left/right/up/down).

Dave also said to ignore the fact that the website said these headlights were out of stock. Just call him, they're in stock and he can complete your order.

Danny - when I head back up to see you I should have a trunk load of goodies!

roadrunner76

11-12-2010, 07:20 AM

Check out this tailight assembly. Too big?

http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=4439

martkat

11-12-2010, 07:55 AM

That's a monster at over 9" wide

But they do have a ton of cool LED tails and turns. Look at this combo of a ring LED tail/stop with a round insert LED turn in red or amber

4467

4468

martkat

11-12-2010, 08:38 AM

Hmm, it's been awhile, but I remember them not exactly being cheap. Somewhere around 250ish for both. I don't believe the gentleman makes them anymore as they've been redesigned and look much more sleek (and much more expensive). They're out of the UK from http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/

Hope this helps!

Just received a reply from this company about their pods. Pics are identical to those on stevew's busa. Lead time is 2 weeks. Price for pods and bezel is about $114 each.

Think I'd rather have a registered/patented pook-master designed metal mount/cup to hold the 99802 Hella

pook

11-12-2010, 10:11 AM

I can make some COOL housings if its OK with BT?

Forgot to post these up the other day.
I made the cut for the gas cap (ignore the plug) I will round out the recess and blend it a bit more before the final sanding but its an idea of where its located.
Sorry the hood it taking so long but I feel its the first thing people will see when they walk up and a wavy body part ain't gonna happen on my watch:thumb2:

PooK

martkat

11-12-2010, 10:34 AM

I can make some COOL housings if its OK with BT?

It can certainly wait until my build is on the table and if it is something outside of the standard package (duh, I know it is) then I'm just fine with the added costs to have you "make some COOL housings"

pook

11-12-2010, 10:46 AM

I would rather get all the glass work out of the way, so the sooner I can get them the better on the projectors. That's the kind of thing I can take home and tinker with in my spare time...LOL...I said "spare time"

PooK

martkat

11-12-2010, 11:20 AM

Ship to address has been changed, order will now be going to you in Lex

pook

11-12-2010, 11:27 AM

:thumb2:

thebionicman

11-12-2010, 04:57 PM

Another week out on the intercooler according to the place I am buying it from :(

pook

11-20-2010, 12:41 PM

A few better pics of the rockers.
Going to be one cool little exo car :thumb2:
PooK

pook

11-21-2010, 02:31 PM

OK, I'm to the point of final sanding and finish work:thumb2:
Ive started the mold for the console.

I ran into this today and had a question.

The pics are not very good but in them you can see the panels are just off the frame. My question is should I short sand the edges to pull them away from the tubes or let them rest?

If I short sand and "float" the panels just off the tubing it will mean a different style of mount needs to be made (no big deal as they have to be made anyway)

My fear is that fiberglass will chew up your guys pretty powder coated frame VERY fast! but I don't like the idea of the panels fluttering either...:thumbdown2:

I did find a very cool plastic U channel, Its lust like door edge guard but a tick smaller and in black. It would slow the scratching but not cure it I think.

Idea's?
PooK (So close now I can taste it!....or that could be fiberglass in my mouth:()

martkat

11-21-2010, 03:49 PM

If you think having the panels fastened directly against the tubing will cause powder coat scuffing and wear, then I would vote to have you short sand the edges to pull them away enough to avoid the rubbing.

A second benefit to having the panels "float" just off the tubing would be that it would eliminate a crevice where debris could gather. Having a gap would allow us to wash off the bugs and road grit without having it all get stuck between the panels and tubing.

B-T

11-21-2010, 04:07 PM

That fit looks good to me. If there is a worry about roughing up the frame with the panels we can always get some 3M clearbra material and apply it in strips wherever the panels would touch the frame. I am planning on soing that in areas anyway to protect the frame from damage likely to occur from road debris getting kicked up.I'm sure there is also some self adhesive weatherstrip material that is flat and thin that would be good protection without being obvious to the users.

I would prefer it to having the panels supported by the frame as opposed to not at the frame because I think most eveyone that sees it would think there was some quality control problems if we leave it with a gap. If it is designed to finish at the frame our panels can rely (somewhat) on the frame to keep them supported. If they are only supported at 6 attachment points there will be a great chance of wind bufffeting causing harmonic tapping / rubbing which would contact the frame anyway. It may also cause more stress on the panel support points if the frame does not help support the panels. I don't see these panels (especially the hood) holding up to the proposed wind speeds without some deflection. I am looking at this from an engineering / practicality standpoint.

I agree that it would be nice to have an easy place for the bugs to wash off to and not get stuck, but I think selective washing and rinsing water flow can avoid most of that issue.

:)
BT

pook

11-21-2010, 04:50 PM

I didn't think about the clearbra stuff.
Some of my Porsche guy's use it on their roll bar/door bars because their shoes wear the paint off climbing in and out.
That should work :thumb2:

PooK

martkat

11-21-2010, 05:06 PM

I agree it would look beter with no gap or as small a gap as possible

pook

11-21-2010, 05:12 PM

I thought so too but then thought about you guys killing me because the frame got scratched....:omg:
PooK

FIAROADSTER

11-21-2010, 09:18 PM

1/4 wrap and machine screw it to the tube?

B-T

11-22-2010, 06:21 AM

The plan is to leave the panels at the tube for the hood, and with the slightest gap as shown for the side pods (you should not be able to see the gap unless you get down on the ground). I will look into a few solutions to protecting the frame / finishing the edge of the hood when the car arrives in Florida. A bird told me this morning some long ago discussed tubes are being bent starting today, they will likely be AS-1 ready soon.
:)
BT

pook

11-23-2010, 06:11 PM

OK, Just playing out loud but maybe?
The window wouldn't be that tall because the body is above the frame rail. PooK

B-T

11-24-2010, 04:46 AM

I like it either the way you sketched it out or with the adjustable brace triangulating the side of the windshield frame. Given the choice I like the adjustability of the side supported frame. I think we can have a pretty short windshield frame that is noticeably lower than the roll hoops if we do a side support, where it would look funny if we have a sloped windshield support to connect to the higher hoops. I trust your eye for design, so whatever you think looks good as long as it is easily removable.
BT

martkat

11-24-2010, 05:05 AM

My vote would be for the side supported frame instead of the roll hoop connection. To me the top connection looks similar to some of the sand rails I'd looked at, I'd much rather have an open roof area without any bars.

B-T

11-24-2010, 05:33 AM

Agree that the open top looks nicer. If it can be done that is my choice. I'll post a sketch of what I am thinking in about an hour.
:)
BT

pook

11-24-2010, 05:37 AM

Very good, That's the input I was looking for and that's what Ill do!

I'm starting the molds today:thumb2: Bill and I figure one mold can be curing while the other parts get the final detail work and so on.

The hood will be last as I work through the windshield details.

Bionic, (Erik) It was great to finally meet you!!!! Sorry again about the shop full of body dust:(

PooK
(I see the light at the end of the tunnel and it doesn't require sanding :coolnana:)

roadrunner76

11-24-2010, 05:40 AM

If you put a convertible top on this vehicle without the center tubes won't the top flap in the wind? Seems like you'd want a center support to add some stiffness to the top and help it keep its shape.

B-T

11-24-2010, 05:58 AM

If you fit a top to the vehicle it will require some support, but not much. I would guess a cross member over the top of the roll hoops, and some stretched vinyl would be fine. Using a kit of parts similar to what the Lotus Elise does would eliminate the need for having other supports that visually detract from the car when the top is not in place.
:)
BT

B-T

11-24-2010, 06:07 AM

Crappy sketch attached...
:D
BT

B-T

11-24-2010, 10:12 AM

We have some wiper assemblies and deluxe matte black cup holders on the way to MWH. Gonna be a sweet ride. Danny is making the molds and we will be powdercoating before too long!!!
:)
BT

thebionicman

11-24-2010, 11:18 AM

pook

11-28-2010, 03:45 PM

Alright, Travel is over...Till Christmas:( and I'm at least 10lbs heavier!

I did sneak off Friday to split the console mold (I couldn't take it) and it looked good enough to go ahead and start a copy (that's the grey surface coat) because the epoxy coat is like sanding porcelain! your paint guy would KILL me!

Also started the floor pan center section because I needed its location to complete the rockers/pods.
They will use a few (not all so the seam isn't broken) of the floor pan mount bolts. This will also be how the future racing side skirts attach for our ground effects.

I have started molding the rockers (I had to make sure this egg shell style stuff would hold up to the mold process before I destroyed a hard to replace part....and it did very well! almost made it out of the mold intact.

The Epoxy glass is strong but painfully slow:( It takes about 3 to 4 days to lay up a mold, and the temp cant drop below 70 or it will take twice as long :awais: Then they have to be wet sanded, buffed, polished, and waxed before they can be used....I way underestimated this step.

I know this fab stuff is like watching grass grow, But its all I got right now so hang with me a bit longer and the fun will start!

PooK

pook

12-08-2010, 06:19 PM

I was working on the windshield design today (dreading either cutting the hood or some weird tabs welded on the chassis for if someone wanted to add a windshield later and it hit me.
I can leave a small tube off the inside of the upper main tube and use a split clamp welded to the windshield frame work!
This makes the windshield's rake adjustable, different size frames avail, and no visible tabs!
When someone orders a windshield they could get a template, a cover (for when its off) and a donut seal (for when its installed)?

Yes, No, Maybe?

PooK

Gage

12-08-2010, 06:25 PM

I like the idea.

Karlo

12-08-2010, 06:33 PM

I need more of your fancy picture / drawings to see it clearly.

pook

12-08-2010, 06:51 PM

I don't know how to draw it any different?
OK, looking down on the hood there is a plug/cover (maybe 2 or 3 inch diam) on each side. Pop them out and you would see a tube that just ends (maybe 2 or 3 inches long). set the windshield down on the tube, install the bottom of the split clamp, install the small braces that set the rake, and tighten...your done....make better sense now? or are you just messing with me???

PooK