SL-R Bodywork

[Juicie]

I really like that bodywork on the SLR picture. The official site doesn't show any of that bodywork. Is this bodywork available or will it be in the near future?

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z302/landfalcon/rcrRoadster.jpg

[Karlo]

From the conversation I have had with Fran, he has got good feed back on the design. Therefore this will be one of the body choices. The brake vents will i really like, all "race" cars should have them!!

[Karlo]

Frans QUOTE

"Guys,

pics will be shown once we are fully satisfied with ALL aspects....we only get one chance to do it right first time.
The panels will be a buffable gelcoat finish just like our other cars...
Black
Dark blue
Gulf Blue
white
Red
orange
yellow
green are the current colour choices"

[Karlo]

Fran

Will the frame will be painted or ?

Also any pictures of the prototype rollcage / Windshield? Similar to the pics below?

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z302/landfalcon/slc.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z302/landfalcon/jonW.jpg

[B-T]

I'm hoping the final product is as close to possible as the rendering. At least it is rendered over a photo of the rolling chassis. Headlights, gas filler, possible rivet or other attachments would need to be added. The two tone is nice, but if it is not available I'd order one in a solid color, and have the two tone added at a paint shop. Is there an RCR logo that will go on the car?
Went to dinner last night with some friends and we were talking about sports cars. I mentioned that I wanted to get another car, and the wife recalled that I wanted to trade my 348 for a 512TR. I had forgotten about that discussion so I broke the news to the wife last night that I wanted to get the SL-R. After seeing it online she agreed that I should go ahead, so I'm 'IN'!!!:coolnana:
I still want to trade out my 348 to a friend that wants to buy it and go for the 512TR.... Gratuitous picture of the 348 attached.
That transaction is dependant on selling a house I have in AZ...
BT

[Karlo]

Fran
Will the frame will be painted or ?


Got word from Fran that the frame will be powder coated gray like, as seen in current pictures.

RT

What engine are you looking at?

[B-T]

On paper I like the Nissan VQ35DE with the 6 speed manual and LSD from a Maxima. It has very strong torque, and pretty high HP without any forced induction. The only drawbacks are that it may not fit, the engine doesn't look too nice, and it has a relatively low redline. The Honda engines have a much nicer look to them (for an exposed engine car), much higher redline, but would require either a fairly built motor or forced induction to make big power. If I had to guess I'd say I'm leaning toward the Honda in the 250 hp range...
Waiting to see what the pricing is from Fran's guy in Florida here...
I have found several Nissan motor / trans setups for around $3000-3500, so there is a pretty incredible value there. A 300 whp turbo kit for the Nissan costs around $4500, so I could be in a 300 hp Nissan setup for around $7500 or so. No Ecotec / SRT4 for me thanks...
BT

[Degeneerit]

On paper I like the Nissan VQ35DE with the 6 speed manual and LSD from a Maxima. It has very strong torque, and pretty high HP without any forced induction. The only drawbacks are that it may not fit, the engine doesn't look too nice, and it has a relatively low redline. The Honda engines have a much nicer look to them (for an exposed engine car), much higher redline, but would require either a fairly built motor or forced induction to make big power. If I had to guess I'd say I'm leaning toward the Honda in the 250 hp range...
Waiting to see what the pricing is from Fran's guy in Florida here...
I have found several Nissan motor / trans setups for around $3000-3500, so there is a pretty incredible value there. A 300 whp turbo kit for the Nissan costs around $4500, so I could be in a 300 hp Nissan setup for around $7500 or so. No Ecotec / SRT4 for me thanks...
BT

I have a g35 and 300whp can be had NA without a $4500 fi setup. Im not a big fan of the vq though. After months of researching Ive found its not the greatest engine for FI. Ideally I think an aluminum block 4 cylinder turbo is perfect for the slr. Good enough traction before boost builds then an extra push back in your seat when that turbo kicks in. Most importantly they are the lightest. I'm not a big fan of domestic engines either but the ecotec looks good. SRT4 is very heavy so its out of the question.

[B-T]

A turbo 4 would be good, but I would prefer a supercharged 4 because the exhaust is left alone. Part of the fun of tooling around in such a car would be hearing the exhaust all the time.
Are there SC kits for the Honda 4 engines?
BT

[Nikolai]

A turbo 4 would be good, but I would prefer a supercharged 4 because the exhaust is left alone. Part of the fun of tooling around in such a car would be hearing the exhaust all the time.
Are there SC kits for the Honda 4 engines?
BT
My 1st post, thanks for starting a great forum here Karlo!

I come from a background in mechanical engineering and Formula SAE racing, and have owned/built a Turbo Integra GSR. There's nothing I've driven or ridden in that's as fun as a miniature Honda F4I Indy-style race car, my butt 3 inches from the ground, catapulting 0-60 in < 3 seconds. That said, I've been looking for some time to build something to match this fun. An Ultima GTR would be my dream build, but I've finally convinced myself that I'm not at the right point in my life to make a financial undertaking like the GTR a reality. Plus, an open-cockpit design like the Atom or SL-R has very similar appeals to a FSAE design, albeit with much more practicallity.

After spending some time looking at specs for the newer K-series Honda motors (it's been a while since I've been a Honda enthusiast), I think this motor would mate *very* well with the SL-R platform. That, and it's the motor Top Gear used for its testing of the Ariel Atom.

Also, I've read some great advice on a very long thread about a guy who had ordered an Atom, and was getting feedback on what motor to put in. There was much debate on whether to go with 200, 245, or 300hp K20's. Good argument was made for starting with the base motor, and after some experience with the car, upgrading the motor with a supercharger or turbo.

I currently drive a Mazdaspeed 3 as my daily driver, and I've seen a few MS3 drivetrains for sale at very reasonable prices, thus I had at one point considered using it for a SL-R build-up... but I'm going with the K20 because a) the MS3 tranny feels like garbage compared to the slick-shifting Honda's, b) Fran will initially have mounts made around the K20 setup, and c) the aftermarket support for the K20 is incredible, which means good Honda tuners are everywhere for when I get the itch to mod.

Thus, I plan to start with a Honda K20-a2 (~200hp), leave it stock for a year or so, after which I'll add a JRSC setup for another ~100hp. Also, after owning a couple of turbo cars, I like the idea of having a fat, level torque curve that only all-motor and SC setups tend to provide. Also much more simplicity in avoiding exhaust/intake plumbing fabrication. The whole KISS principal, really.

Finally, I'd like to extend mad props to Fran for making this project a reality. I think it's going to be bigger than he ever imagined once the masses catch on. And above all, I'm very impressed to see him repeatedly say, "but this *will* be a $15,995 car, thus XYZ will NOT be an option". Great to see you stick to your guns, Fran. Very excited to be a part of the future SL-R community!

- Nick

[B-T]

My 1st post, thanks for starting a great forum here Karlo!

I come from a background in mechanical engineering and Formula SAE racing, and have owned/built a Turbo Integra GSR. There's nothing I've driven or ridden in that's as fun as a miniature Honda F4I Indy-style race car, my butt 3 inches from the ground, catapulting 0-60 in < 3 seconds. That said, I've been looking for some time to build something to match this fun. An Ultima GTR would be my dream build, but I've finally convinced myself that I'm not at the right point in my life to make a financial undertaking like the GTR a reality. Plus, an open-cockpit design like the Atom or SL-R has very similar appeals to a FSAE design, albeit with much more practicallity.

After spending some time looking at specs for the newer K-series Honda motors (it's been a while since I've been a Honda enthusiast), I think this motor would mate *very* well with the SL-R platform. That, and it's the motor Top Gear used for its testing of the Ariel Atom.

Also, I've read some great advice on a very long thread about a guy who had ordered an Atom, and was getting feedback on what motor to put in. There was much debate on whether to go with 200, 245, or 300hp K20's. Good argument was made for starting with the base motor, and after some experience with the car, upgrading the motor with a supercharger or turbo.

I currently drive a Mazdaspeed 3 as my daily driver, and I've seen a few MS3 drivetrains for sale at very reasonable prices, thus I had at one point considered using it for a SL-R build-up... but I'm going with the K20 because a) the MS3 tranny feels like garbage compared to the slick-shifting Honda's, b) Fran will initially have mounts made around the K20 setup, and c) the aftermarket support for the K20 is incredible, which means good Honda tuners are everywhere for when I get the itch to mod.

Thus, I plan to start with a Honda K20-a2 (~200hp), leave it stock for a year or so, after which I'll add a JRSC setup for another ~100hp. Also, after owning a couple of turbo cars, I like the idea of having a fat, level torque curve that only all-motor and SC setups tend to provide. Also much more simplicity in avoiding exhaust/intake plumbing fabrication. The whole KISS principal, really.

Finally, I'd like to extend mad props to Fran for making this project a reality. I think it's going to be bigger than he ever imagined once the masses catch on. And above all, I'm very impressed to see him repeatedly say, "but this *will* be a $15,995 car, thus XYZ will NOT be an option". Great to see you stick to your guns, Fran. Very excited to be a part of the future SL-R community!

- Nick

That sounds like a reasonable approach, and one that I would also consider (holding off on the big power until I am used to the car with a base 200 hp).

+1000 on the props to Fran. I am thinking this will definitely be a big hit once enough people see it! I am keeping mum on the purchase to my local friends and hope to surprise them with an operational (and licensed) car in the late summer / early fall. I spoke to another DMV employee this morning and they indicatedon the west coast of our state (Sarasota area) that they only verify that the components are paid for to make the car street legal, although my local DMV says they do a 'safety check'. I'm getting some info mailed to me so I will know what is required before I build the car. Hopefully no windshield!
Again, way to go Fran, let's see that F1 in a photo on a roller!
:D
BT

[Nikolai]

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1465875&page=1

Here's the link to the motors discussion I referred to. Couldn't find it earlier. A must-read for anyone considering the SL-R! :popcorn:

[Karlo]

Welcome Nikolai:king:

I think your right about start smaller HP and work up.

[Degeneerit]

Nikolai thanks for the info on the ms3 drive train. What type of prices were you seeing for the ms3 drive train, and was it the 2.3 turbo disi?

[Nikolai]

Thanks Karlo!

I've seen MS3 drivetrains (yes, the 2.3MZR DISI motor) for about $2,500-$3,500, complete with ECU, tranny, etc, and with very low mileage. Given the exhaust/intake combos likely to be fab'd for the SL-R, these drivetrains could produce just under 300hp and 320lb-ft at the crank with no other modifications. The factory fuel map is so rich that this power level could be done safely without ECU mods. There'd be some issues getting air to the factory intercooler, however, as the MS3 has a ducted hood to aid this effort. Another reason for the JRSC...several setups I've seen are thermally efficient enough to not require an intercooler. :cool3:

[Degeneerit]

I think the intercooler would work perfectly in the side vent opposite of the radiator duct on the slr. Also changing from a tmic to a fmic alone would put the engine well over 300hp and should not have a effect on fuel maps since you are just changing the density and temp of the air. Wow those prices are great. Do you mind me asking where you found them? I think the mzd just moved to the top of my list. I love the k20 but FI on a extremely high compression engine is not my thing.

[Karlo]

There seem to be lots of Great engine options out there. :)


MazdaSpeed3 2008

Type-L3T 2.3L Direct Injection Spark Ignition (DISI) Turbocharged 16-valve 4-cylinder Peak horsepower RPM 263 hp @ 5500 RPM Peak torque (lb-ft) 280 @ 3000 RPM Redline 6500

[Nikolai]

Yes, it is a great engine. Ward's 10-Best winner now for the 3rd consecutive year now: http://wardsauto.com/reports/2008/tenbest/best_engines_focus/

And more detail here pasted in a discussion forum: http://forums.motortrend.com/70/6546471/the-general-forum/wards-10-best-engines-2008/index.html


Mazda Motor Corp.

DISI 2.3L Turbocharged DOHC I-4

It's hard for us to believe 2008 marks the third 10 Best Engines appearance for Mazda Motor Corp.'s sparkling DISI 2.3L 4-cyl.

When the engine launched in 2005 for the '06 Mazdaspeed6, it was a radical piece of work - something we've come to expect from Mazda's powertrain unit.

We think this engine is the poster child for how affordable horsepower has become. Three years ago, there wasn't really anything even close to generating 114 hp per liter at the Mazdaspeed3's price point of $22,935.

Yes, there are models from Japanese auto makers with hyper-tuned turbocharged 4-cyls. that make more power and torque, but the Subaru WRX STI and Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution cost 10 grand more.

Now, however, there is some fresh competition. Chevrolet's new 2.0L turbocharged 4-cyl. in the HHR SS is making 260 hp (130 hp/L), and Chrysler's Dodge Caliber SRT4 slams out 285 hp (119 hp/L) from its turbocharged 2.4L 4-cyl. Both, at $22,995, are within the cost of some floor mats from the price of the Mazdaspeed3.

Best Engines testers still consider Mazda's DISI 4-cyl. the best of the breed, however. Like the GM 4-cyl., it has gasoline direct injection (GDI to us, Direct Injection Spark Ignition, or DISI, to Mazda), which is a supreme advantage for small-displacement turbocharged engines.

GDI is a low-rpm torque enhancer, the perfect companion for turbochargers, which need a few seconds at low rpm to really start generating their power-hiking huff.

And with twin balance shafts and beefed-up internals, this power-dense version of the Mazda-developed global MZR 4-cyl. architecture (also used by one-third owner Ford Motor *** is more refined than either of its direct competitors.

We were disturbed to see the Mazdaspeed6, the company's other performance model to use this engine, dropped for '08.

But if the front-drive Mazdaspeed3 is too much edgy overload (specially developed engine-management software does a so-so job of quelling torque steer), this engine does stellar duty in the CX-7 crossover, which uses all-wheel-drive to take torque steer to the woodshed.

Mazda's DISI 2.3L turbocharged DOHC I-4 is a whole lotta power, a whole lotta technology and a whole lotta fun at a fantastic price - a formula for success that makes Mazda one of the best little powertrain developers in the world.

ENGINE SPECS

Engine type: 2.3L Turbocharged DOHC I-4
Displacement (cc): 2,260
Block/head material: aluminum/aluminum
Bore × stroke: 87.4 × 94
Horsepower (SAE net): 263 @ 5,500 rpm
Torque: 280 lb.-ft. (380 Nm) @ 3,000 rpm
Specific output: 114 hp/L
Compression ratio: 9.5:1
Assembly site: Hiroshima, Japan
Application tested: Mazdaspeed3
EPA fuel economy, city/highway (mpg): 18/26

Finally, some resources from Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_MZR_engine

Still, with just about all the aftermarket goodies available for improving shifter/tranny feel, it's probably my least-favorite part about the MS3. It would be hard to select that drivetrain after having experienced the tranny first-hand for months now. However, the performance/$ ratio is pretty hard to beat. 300whp has been proven possible on the stock turbo for a relatively small investment. Resources I've seen for these used drivetrains are from mazda3forums and mazdas247, as well as on Ebay.

I agree, the side pod opposite to the radiator would be a good place for a stock or upgraded TMIC. Tuning is effected by any change in intercooler/intake due to the significantly lowered pressure losses, which provides more effective boost pressure to the engine, thus leaning out the factory tune. Front-mount isn't a necessary upgrade (thank goodness!), as there are several aftermarket TMIC's available from companies like ETS, and at a fraction of the price of a true FMIC. These TMIC units are good for over 400whp, and I'm not sure a FMIC, as made for the MS3, could be plumb'd to the front, or would fit there.

-Nick

[Degeneerit]

These TMIC units are good for over 400whp, and I'm not sure a FMIC, as made for the MS3, could be plumb'd to the front, or would fit there.

-Nick

Yeah there would have to be some fabrication to make it a FMIC. But with the right sized intercooler and some elbow pipes I think it could be done. Upgrading the TMIC is alright but I dont like the idea of having an intercooler sit on top of the engine, kinda defeats the purpose of trying to cool the intake air. But if these drive trains can really be had for $2500-3500 this engine is the top pick no brainier for me. Nikolai where did you find those prices?

[Nikolai]

Resources I've seen for these used drivetrains are from mazda3forums and mazdas247, as well as on Ebay.

In reply to your question, D'engineer...

[Fran Hall RCR]

I have been in some deep discussion with OEM type suppliers and whilst some customers may well be prepared to purchase a BRAND NEW OEM type package the prices being quoted to me are upsetting.

Again , the SL-R is my attempt at value for money , and smiles per mile fun...my hope is that many if not most people will purchase a take out or crashed drivetrain and keep the spirit of cost effectiveness clearly in sight.

I have a call scheduled tomorrow with a supplier of another OEM crate package...this time Ford....to see if a solution can be found....

Its a real bummer that the domestic (and Japanese for that matter) OEM's have really lost sight of the ball with their crate engine packages.....Oh well...leaves room for us enthusiast to make ourr mark I suppose.....

[Nikolai]

Sad news indeed, Fran. But as you say, seems like most folks following your creation are not above used drivetrain components. Even something used and in poor working order could be re-built by some very reputable shops to make gobs more power than possible in factory trim, and still for far less than a new crate offering would cost.

"Smiles per mile" will be on tall order with the SL-R concept, no matter how you slice it.

[Nikolai]

Yeah there would have to be some fabrication to make it a FMIC. But with the right sized intercooler and some elbow pipes I think it could be done. Upgrading the TMIC is alright but I dont like the idea of having an intercooler sit on top of the engine, kinda defeats the purpose of trying to cool the intake air. But if these drive trains can really be had for $2500-3500 this engine is the top pick no brainier for me. Nikolai where did you find those prices?

http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?topic=101659.0

FYI. Almost a complete package, and only 6k miles. :clap::clap:

[B-T]

What do you guys think of putting an evaporator unit in front of the air intake for a 'charge cooler'? Most engine swaps include the A/C compressor, and since there is really no useful A/C for an open car we could gain cold intake air by conditioning / cooling the intake air? Just a thought, maybe add a simple relay ala Mad Max to turn the cooler on for when you want to drive more aggresively leaving the A/C compressor clutch disengaged for normal driving to reduce drag.
Would you gain power at all with the dense/cold air charge, or would the parasitic drag of the compressor take away any power gains on a N/A or S/C engine? Maybe only useful in hot climates? Just a though outside the normal box...
BT

[Karlo]

Interesting thought. BT

My thoughts are the performance gain will be very small. Spend all your time and $$$ on engine upgrades. More bang for you time.

[dwmtl1000s]

This idea has come up elsewhere before and most people felt it was like trying to get something for nothing and that the drag was larger than the hp gain. Plus thats more weight = bad

[B-T]

Okay, then maybe I use the compressor with an evap coil in the nose cone and no blower with a relay to run the a/c clutch? Let airflow give a little cool wash for the driver and passenger? Or just ditch the compressor and get a new serpentine belt for the shorter length required and save the weight?
BT

[Craig – Absolute PACE]

Depending on your climate and temperatures, there is a lot of benefit in ducting fresh air into the cockpit, especially the footwells. Air Con is even better. :)

[B-T]

Here it is really humid and hot, so some cooler air would be welcome about 9 months of the year. I don't know if it is worth the effort, but it seems like a :cool3: idea.
BT

[Craig – Absolute PACE]

I just ducted some fresh air into my Cobra replica and it is well worth the effort.

Always something you can do later as I expect you have more imoprtant things to do and sort out initially. :)

[B-T]

...I expect you have more imoprtant things to do and sort out initially. :)

No doubt! I probably will just leave the A/C compressor attached to the engine and not do anything at first. Then I can decide if I prefer to lose the weight by removing it or make it more comfortable by doing some sort of A/C for the occupants.
BT

[Craig – Absolute PACE]

My wife was a big factor in installing fresh air ducts into the footwells. The more comfortable/happy she is, the better life is for me. If you get my drift. :)

I'm really excited about these cars, I've had a huge amount of interest in the SL-R in Aus and they are not even here yet.

[Craig – Absolute PACE]

Just replying to this post in the SL-R On Order?? thread: http://www.exocars.net/showpost.php?p=1017&postcount=43

BT, with the gelcoat colours for your SL-R body, I would just get the closest gelcoat colour to what you will be painting it.

2 reasons for this, you get to roughly see your color choice against the chassis and wheel colors before paint and after the body is painted if you get any stone chips or damage that goes back to gelcoat, there is not going to be the big contrast between gelcoat and paint color.

For underneath you just get the body panels coated with black underbody type paint. Some people also attach that closed cell type foam under the wheel arches to reduce noise and damage from road/track debris being flicked up by the tires. Softer race tires are particularly prone to this.

In my opinion black is a good choice in gelcoat as it is one of the better looking colours if you didn't want to paint it at all.

[Chadillac]

Craig, have you seen the gelcoat in red? I'm probably not going to paint the car for a while and have been trying to decide between red and black.

[Craig – Absolute PACE]

I think the bold/stark colours work best with gelcoat.

Red is a great choice. I've got 3 x Red GT40's being built by RCR right now as I think it's a great gelcoat color.

So if you are not thinking about painting it, a red body would look fantastic if you clean and polish up the gelcoat.

But make sure you coat underneath the body panels for the reasons above, plus you will find the panels are slightly transparent so without underbody coating light you will wash out the gelcoat/paint colors somewhat.

[bolus]

any pictures of the bodywork yet? did I miss them?

[Karlo]

any pictures of the bodywork yet? did I miss them?

No pictures yet until Knotts :)

[B-T]

...did I miss them?

We all did...
:)
BT

[bolus]

so body work is done just no pics yet?

[Karlo]

so body work is done just no pics yet?

I would say the body work design is done but the production of the "Sold" Superlite Roadsters body is not "done".

I can "hear" the trimming and sanding of fiber glass.

:taco:

[B-T]

so body work is done just no pics yet?

Correct. Fran is just waiting until the Knott's show to make the car "Public".
BT